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Old 12-07-2006, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 598,019 times
Reputation: 175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhyrnut View Post
Yes, But the liberals want it so even if it is stolen, they still want you to go to jail for it. And anyone who makes them , they want to hold responsable for all actions with the firearm. We don't need more restrictions on firearms we need to enforce the laws that are already there. Anyone commiting a crime with a gun, should get a automatic 25 years no plea bargin. Registering isn't a solution. Incarseratining the criminals is. How ever, I do beleive that you should be required a safty course before you can own 1. I'll bet the crime rate in KENNESAW , GA is very low along with the town that followed in their footsteps.
I can't speak for what the liberals want, but I can't name a single legal precedent where a person was ever prosecuted for what someone else did with their firearm. I may be wrong, but can anyone name one?

But I actually think it's perfectly reasonable for gun owners to be responsible for keeping track of their firearms. Saying "I didn't know it was stolen" isn't an excuse. Owning that weapon implies a responsibility to ensure it's secure. In the military, soldiers can be taken to courts-martial for losing a weapon. The same should apply to civilians.

Criminals should be incarcerated, and for crimes with firearms they should be doing very long stretches. But I'd take it further. If a gun owner loses or sells a gun that's used in a crime, and if there is no record of that weapon being lost or sold, he should be held liable at least for criminal negligence.

Take the Columbine massacre for example. I consider it an outrage that the parents of Harris & Kleibold weren't prosecuted.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:38 PM
 
112 posts, read 51,611 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Have you ever actually been to prison? Unless you are Martha Stewart, it's hardly a spring vacation.

Our penal system now does little but harden criminals. That isn't what we want.




But again: You are only considering one person in your thinking. Why? There are at least two persons at stake here: Mother and child. What kind of sense does it make to rob one of all rights? I'm all for doing more to help women in crisis pregnancies (unlike most righties), but we need to work for solutions that protect BOTH mother and child.

I have friends that work for a correctional facilities. These criminals do not think like we do. They have friends and realities that they meet in there. It is a party for them. Most of these harden criminals are no stranger to the judicial system either. Their mindset is evil! They know the law and how to use it in their favor.
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,744,133 times
Reputation: 2099
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecuban View Post
I have friends that work for a correctional facilities. These criminals do not think like we do. They have friends and realities that they meet in there. It is a party for them. Most of these harden criminals are no stranger to the judicial system either. Their mindset is evil! They know the law and how to use it in their favor.
Not to mention they have "Perks", why do criminals get perks? I dont have many perks! ( Ok now that I have said it 3 times, Perks is such a weird word!) I dont have friends in corrections, but my brother was in the State Pen!! Ah so proud!
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 175,064 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
I'm not a progressive, but I'll field this one.

Registration doesn't stop gun crime, but like automobile registration it makes the crime more traceable. You register your car, keep it locked when you leave it and report it stolen if someone takes it.

If you buy a gun, you're responsible for it. It's your personal responsibility to keep your gun secure. If you sell it, it's your responsibility to register the transfer. If it gets stolen, it's your responsibility to report it stolen. If a gun registered to you is used in a crime, it's your responsibility for letting that gun get out of your control.

So many gun owners harp about personal responsibility...why not take it upon yourself to exercise it?
Agree with you 100% on this one...excellent points. I'm going to have to trade in my bow and arrow, soon. lol
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:51 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,673,739 times
Reputation: 478
Default gun registration

If started today, only the law abiding legal guns would be registered. how do you get to the others. you cannot stop "straw sales". with thousands of gun laws out there ;have they got all the guns away from the punk gangsters.
If accidental deaths are your main concern, most happen to younger kids. But that is not the main thing killing them, Cars,bikes and pools kill alot more.guns are 5th on the list. wheres the out cry for all of that. recently there was a case of a gun owner sued because he did not secure his guns well enough. the two pukes breakin to his home, 1st crime. then broke open a metal cabinet, not a major safe, and stole his guns, 2nd crime. then shot someone, 3rd. homeowner was concidered the cause of it all. go figure.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 598,019 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
If started today, only the law abiding legal guns would be registered. how do you get to the others. you cannot stop "straw sales". with thousands of gun laws out there ;have they got all the guns away from the punk gangsters.
If accidental deaths are your main concern, most happen to younger kids. But that is not the main thing killing them, Cars,bikes and pools kill alot more.guns are 5th on the list. wheres the out cry for all of that. recently there was a case of a gun owner sued because he did not secure his guns well enough. the two pukes breakin to his home, 1st crime. then broke open a metal cabinet, not a major safe, and stole his guns, 2nd crime. then shot someone, 3rd. homeowner was concidered the cause of it all. go figure.
But even with straw sales, most of those guns were bought legally by someone. If they're registered then later sold on, whoever registered that gun should bear a liability if it's used in a crime.

The gun owner who got sued, clearly an example of misapplication of the law.
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Old 12-10-2006, 03:41 PM
 
112 posts, read 51,611 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
But even with straw sales, most of those guns were bought legally by someone. If they're registered then later sold on, whoever registered that gun should bear a liability if it's used in a crime.

The gun owner who got sued, clearly an example of misapplication of the law.

No way should that person be liable. If you sell your car and the person you sold it to did not register it and ran somebody over should you be the responsible party?
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 598,019 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecuban View Post
No way should that person be liable. If you sell your car and the person you sold it to did not register it and ran somebody over should you be the responsible party?
When you sell your car you need a notarised bill of sale. If you don't get that it's a fraudluent sale and yes, you're negligent and liable.

Again, I ask, where are the NeoRadical cries for personal responsibility?
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:33 PM
 
112 posts, read 51,611 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
When you sell your car you need a notarised bill of sale. If you don't get that it's a fraudluent sale and yes, you're negligent and liable.

Again, I ask, where are the NeoRadical cries for personal responsibility?


Too-shay!!! All I am saying is this would never happen with todays law because of the very reason I stated. Let me ask you. If you loose the bill of sale would you still be liable?
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 598,019 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecuban View Post
Too-shay!!! All I am saying is this would never happen with todays law because of the very reason I stated. Let me ask you. If you loose the bill of sale would you still be liable?
The bill of sale is registered. That's what notaries are for.
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