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As you have been told repeatedly, no vaccine is perfect, and some are more effective than others. In any outbreak some cases will have been vaccinated.
Yes, protection from some vaccines does wane. That is why we need boosters.
Ah sweetie we know you mean well and we appreaciate it but vaccines might LOOK GOOD for SHORT TERM but we cannot say FOR SURE they arent responsible for long term affects.... It compromises your nature immunity!!!!!!!
I HAVE AN AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASE!!! -- I have red scally patches,skin is always falling off me...... WITH WHAT I KNOW NOW ABOUT VACCINES,no one is gonna tell me my immune system wasnt damaged by this garbage!!!!!!! (Sadly VIT-C wont attack auto immune diseases (They are like a STEALTH TROJAN on a computer (They cant be seen while running)))
I WOULD LOVE TO GET RID OF THIS!!!!! -- W/O FUNDING BIG PHARMA!!!!!!!!! (They have already done enough damage)
I keep wondering why there are so many vaccine threads in the political forum. Yes, it's become a question of doubt but most of that is for the medical community and pharma. The 3rd largest killer in the U.S. is medical mistakes. People are becoming weary of medical advice. Misdiagnoses is skyrocketing. Addiction to prescription meds is on the rise. It's no wonder people feel a lack of trust.
So, telling them this "medicine" is the latest life saver means half of what it use to. That's a no duh. But, debating this in the political forum still seems odd. Why not take it to the health forums, or the debate forums?
Unless you are going to say Trump likes or hates vaccines. lol
I also think it has to do with vaccines being placed on the mandatory list for diseases that aren't typically life-threatening or high risk. NY requires the chicken-pox vaccine now. I won't be the least bit surprised if NY and NJ both start requiring Guardisil soon. Added to that, the timeline for vaccines has been moved up too far, imo. The only reason to give an hours-old baby Hep B is if someone in the immediate family has hepatitis.
I've stated before, all my kids are vaccinated, so don't go accusing me of being anti-vax. I just think it's too much, too soon, and there are some that should be left to choice. When it starts to seem like a money-making scheme for pharmaceuticals, rather than protection for our kids, is it any wonder there's push back?
I had measles in 1949 at 6 months old because my Mom never nursed me. Hospitalized? Go to a doctor? Nope. We unvaccinated for measles are your parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, and number in the millions. So you are worried about unvaccinated children? Are you worried about us too?
BTW, when mothers had had the measles (not MMR) themselves, their OB's were not worried about infants catching measles because their Moms (my kids born in 1979 and 1984) passed their natural immunity on to them, and through their breast milk which my own Mom didn't.
BTW, show me the link that that baby died. I think that is false. I believe there was a Washington woman who died but she HAD been vaccinated and had other medical issues.
Immunity from breastmilk is temporary....
It does not last a lifetime. Most babies were breastfed in the early 20th century but hundreds of thousands of children got measles every year.
Recently I was going through death records of my local area (I am an amateur local historian and genealogist) and saw there was a measles outbreak here between 1863 and 1864. There were 6 pages total of measles deaths or "swelling of the brain" which is a side effect of measles. No telling how many children became deaf or suffered from other health issues once they survived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
Back when America was still great, parents (aka the greatest generation) had childhood memories of losing siblings and friends to these diseases. When the vaccines came out, they couldn't get them in our arms soon enough. My children can be free of polio? Of course! Today's parents have no such memories. Nobody dies much anymore of these things because of the success of vaccination programs in those days. It is easy to be a science denier or an ignorant fool. So many are.
I agree with this. My in-laws are in their 70s. They remember their parents taking them to get vaccinated and how they had to wait in long lines. My FIL had the measles when he was a kid at around 4 years old and he still remembers the suffering he endured. He stated, and I quote "I don't know why any parent would want their kids to get measles if there is a chance they won't. Parents who want their kids to get measles are stupid!" lol.
In the last measles outbreak at Disney, a baby died, the baby was too young to have been vaccinated. A gf of mine is anti vax, & I said their rights to not vaccinate, end, when it can kill an innocent child/baby.
This is the real issue. I see people out in crowds with infants exposing them to all sorts of viruses and diseases, you would think they would be more responsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
So what other medical procedures would you force people to have besides vaccinations?
The list would grow over time, just like the list of required vaccinations for school. Big Pharma!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax
Absolutely none, as long as the non vaccinated person(s) also agree to quarantine themselves/their children completely from the rest of society and never leave said quarantine, so that they aren't FORCING exposure to easily preventable diseases on everyone else.
Considering the weaknesses of the people who contact these viruses, perhaps the best policy is for them to take care of themselves. As you know, our borders are open and we are seeing 3rd world diseases now, some we have never seen before, so of course, you oppose refugees coming into the country and enforcing our immigration laws if you are serious about the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53
yup- think of all the freedom!! to get Polio, Chicken Pox, the flu, cholera, TB...
I don't think they give the polio vaccine anymore, but aren't the refugees bringing it into the country. Had the chicken pox, rubella, several types of flu, TB is being brought in by refugees, but there is no vaccine on that, cholera - 3rd world although they'll probably drag it into our country, a vaccination for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
as I'm reading thru this thread I see this....how old was the baby? and I'm just asking, for now....but if the baby was too young to vaccinate, why would you take it out around all these people at Disney?
Don't you believe that is a bit irresponsible? I would never take a baby to a place like that? Seriously, I'm not trying to be aloof, but for me, that's a bit much.
Rarely do we agree, but I had the same thought. Parents have some responsibility in this one. I see them out with infants in the grocery store and allowing strangers to paw at the newborns.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
If those that want to be vaccinated are vaccinated, they are In no danger.
True. Everyone should be able to weigh their risks. For those that cannot be vaccinated because of a medical condition, the number of illegals and refugees bringing in disease will eventually take a toll on them anyway. It comes down to personal responsibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax
Lots of things are forced on people, weak argument. You think not?
Try:
Not paying taxes
Going on a killing spree
Armed robbery
Opening up a commercial moonshine operation
Selling drugs
AND
ON
AND
ON
AND
ON
Hell, here you are in another thread I was just reading stating that bartenders should be forced to not serve alcohol to intoxicated people.
Oh I get it, you are big on "freedom" - but only the kind of "freedom" you personally approve of huh?
So why are you such a hypocrite?
When it comes to their health, it is a different story, totally different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53
google herd immunity- also what about newborns who haven't made it through the entire cycle of vaccines or those who may be unable to be vaccinated due to other health issues, should they suffer b/c people read a blog or trust Jenny McCarty more than doctors?
They suffer because their parents are ignorant and/or uncaring. Most are dropped off at daycare centers where if they have a faulty immune system, it is only a matter of time before they contract something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax
Because you said so, uh huh. Anti-Vaxxers are like the drunk drivers of the disease vector population. And equally as in denial as an alcoholic insisting they are just "fine" to drive home.
Not at all. Anti-Vaxxers have taken the time to study the situation and make an informed decision. I realize many aren't able to do that, thus their herd mentality to just listen to mass media and let others decide, those motivated by money, big pharma and corrupt politicians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa
Back when America was still great, parents (aka the greatest generation) had childhood memories of losing siblings and friends to these diseases. When the vaccines came out, they couldn't get them in our arms soon enough. My children can be free of polio? Of course! Today's parents have no such memories. Nobody dies much anymore of these things because of the success of vaccination programs in those days. It is easy to be a science denier or an ignorant fool. So many are.
I had chicken pox, mumps, and rubella, just like my sibling, cousins and everyone at school, back when America was great and our immune systems actually grew stronger, probably why I don't have health issues now and pickup everything that is out there or being brought in by refugees and illegal aliens. I never remember anyone dying nor did I know anyone with autism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech
Sterilization for anti-vaxxers might be appropriate.
Let's go another direction. Let's do genetic testing on everyone before they are allowed to reproduce. Only the strongest ones with no predisposition to genetic abnormalities will be allowed to have children, all others will be sterilized.
The cost in lives, health insurance premiums and Medicaid will decrease.
Will do the perfect world thing, eugenics. This will save us so much money and so many lives. Think of all of those that will be spared a lifetime of suffering.
I can only support sterilization for those people and government officials that want to take away the rights of others to make informed decisions about their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
Vaccinations are dangerous. Those with compromised immune systems are ticking time bombs and no reason to take the rest of us with them.
We SHOULD get them, but should we be FORCED to get them?
Already responded to, but I want to add-there are no mandatory vaccination laws in the US. That is, you cannot be arrested for walking down the street unvaccinated. Nor can you be fined or jailed. In a perfect world, people would get vaccinated because it's the right thing to do and we wouldn't need vaccine mandates for day care, school and university attendance. But it's not a perfect world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta
I'm a lot more worried about getting a bacterial infection at a hospital than I am the flu. Should we start putting doctors and nurses in jail for giving us a deadly infection? Stock up cameras in every room so we can see if nurse Kay didn't wash her hands or didn't sterilize an instrument? We are human and we believe what we believe, we make mistakes, etc.
People will do what they feel is right for themselves and their families. It doesn't matter. Each side feels convinced the other is lying. It's like religion, we have the right to believe or not believe what we want. It's like politics. All is wrapped up in vaccine debates. What a mess.
Most people get vaccinated don't they? I'm not sure on the numbers but I know everyone did for school. Most of my co workers get the flu shot. So what if some don't, there are so many things we could catch out there from people being careless you'd have to be crazy to worry about it all the time. Forcing people to "do what's right" is really difficult. Especially since "doing what's right" is objectionable. Especially with the right to religious belief, our constitution, etc.
I think we should just be thankful if we are alive at the moment and call it a day. Pro vaccine? What does that even mean? Is it like the vaccine army? lol So scary....lol
Again, already responded to, but I'd like to add. Since you spend the vast majority of your time outside the hospital, you should really worry about something more realistic, if you want to worry. The vaccine-preventable disease you are most likely to be hospitalized for is. . . .influenza. Think about that the next time flu shots come around.
As I said above, people are not "forced" to vaccinate, as in under penalty of law. As far as the "right or wrong", vaccines are not in the same category as "Is red a prettier color than blue?" There are rights and wrongs in science. As far as the constitution, see "Jacobson vs Massachusetts": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts "Jacobson" was later used to uphold mandatory school vaccine laws in Texas. As far as religion, the Supreme Court said that religious freedom “does not include liberty to expose the community or the child to communicable disease” in Prince v. Massachusetts, 1944. MMS: Error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111
Ah sweetie we know you mean well and we appreaciate it but vaccines might LOOK GOOD for SHORT TERM but we cannot say FOR SURE they arent responsible for long term affects.... It compromises your nature immunity!!!!!!!
I HAVE AN AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASE!!! -- I have red scally patches,skin is always falling off me...... WITH WHAT I KNOW NOW ABOUT VACCINES,no one is gonna tell me my immune system wasnt damaged by this garbage!!!!!!! (Sadly VIT-C wont attack auto immune diseases (They are like a STEALTH TROJAN on a computer (They cant be seen while running)))
I WOULD LOVE TO GET RID OF THIS!!!!! -- W/O FUNDING BIG PHARMA!!!!!!!!! (They have already done enough damage)
Vaccines have been extant since 1798, 219 years now. Even the most recent vaccines in the infant/child schedule have been around for 10 years now. The more common childhood vaxes have been around since the 1940s-1960s, with diphtheria toxoid vaccine coming online in 1923. If there were a lot of long-term effects, we'd be seeing them.
I hope you get your problems resolved soon. Don't be afraid of "Big Pharma". Have you given up eating because of the excesses of "Big Ag"?
I also think it has to do with vaccines being placed on the mandatory list for diseases that aren't typically life-threatening or high risk. NY requires the chicken-pox vaccine now. I won't be the least bit surprised if NY and NJ both start requiring Guardisil soon. Added to that, the timeline for vaccines has been moved up too far, imo. The only reason to give an hours-old baby Hep B is if someone in the immediate family has hepatitis.
I've stated before, all my kids are vaccinated, so don't go accusing me of being anti-vax. I just think it's too much, too soon, and there are some that should be left to choice. When it starts to seem like a money-making scheme for pharmaceuticals, rather than protection for our kids, is it any wonder there's push back?
I basically agree. Far too many and far too young. So why does that newborn need a Hep. B vax? For the same reason that a 65 year old man (my husband) needs a Hep. B vax after a heart attack. To protect the hospital from their own negligence of contamination. Hello?
NYC used to require Flu Shots for all Pre-Schoolers, but a Judge struck that down. There is a bill before State Senate to require it for all public school students. Going nowhere. While Guardisil probably will be approved, I highly doubt the legislature will approve Mandatory Flu Shots. Does the legislature vaccinate themselves and their own children for the Flu? Mandate Teacher Flu Shots also? Fortunately, not all states are as fanatical as California when it comes to this issue.
Edit: The only vaccination I refused for my own children was that Hep. B when they were teens. Of course, that schedule was nothing like it is today, let alone when I was a child. Small Pox, DPT, and Polio vaccinations were the only ones my generation got as kids. Compare the number today.
Until very recently a good portion if not a majority of anti-vaccers were card carrying leftists and tree huggers. It was only when it somehow became a political thing that people started lining up along partisan lines on this issue, and many lefties were forced to do a 180 on the issue in order to keep getting invited to all the coolest cocktail parties.
so you felt the need ot take my thoughts specifically trying to make it apolitical and make it political? you must be the guy nobody wants to get stuck standing next to at parties...
Until very recently a good portion if not a majority of anti-vaccers were card carrying leftists and tree huggers. It was only when it somehow became a political thing that people started lining up along partisan lines on this issue, and many lefties were forced to do a 180 on the issue in order to keep getting invited to all the coolest cocktail parties.
Untrue! I have been giving vaccines since the 1970s, just recently retired. Anti-vaxers have always spanned the political spectrum, as long as I have been involved in vaccinating, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliamsny
I also think it has to do with vaccines being placed on the mandatory list for diseases that aren't typically life-threatening or high risk. NY requires the chicken-pox vaccine now. I won't be the least bit surprised if NY and NJ both start requiring Guardisil soon. Added to that, the timeline for vaccines has been moved up too far, imo. The only reason to give an hours-old baby Hep B is if someone in the immediate family has hepatitis.
I've stated before, all my kids are vaccinated, so don't go accusing me of being anti-vax. I just think it's too much, too soon, and there are some that should be left to choice. When it starts to seem like a money-making scheme for pharmaceuticals, rather than protection for our kids, is it any wonder there's push back?
Are you aware that prior to the chickenpox vaccine, about 100-150 people died every year from chickenpox? About half of these deaths were in adults who had not contracted cpx in childhood, and then got it from their kids. Now in a country the size of ours, that doesn't sound like a lot, but if it's your child or your spouse, you'd probably feel differently.
Vaccines are not a "money-making scheme for pharmaceuticals" any more than any other drug is for them. Vaccines are mostly "one and done", not something you take daily for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse
This is the real issue. I see people out in crowds with infants exposing them to all sorts of viruses and diseases, you would think they would be more responsible.
The list would grow over time, just like the list of required vaccinations for school. Big Pharma!
Considering the weaknesses of the people who contact these viruses, perhaps the best policy is for them to take care of themselves. As you know, our borders are open and we are seeing 3rd world diseases now, some we have never seen before, so of course, you oppose refugees coming into the country and enforcing our immigration laws if you are serious about the issue.
I don't think they give the polio vaccine anymore, but aren't the refugees bringing it into the country. Had the chicken pox, rubella, several types of flu, TB is being brought in by refugees, but there is no vaccine on that, cholera - 3rd world although they'll probably drag it into our country, a vaccination for that?
Rarely do we agree, but I had the same thought. Parents have some responsibility in this one. I see them out with infants in the grocery store and allowing strangers to paw at the newborns.........
True. Everyone should be able to weigh their risks. For those that cannot be vaccinated because of a medical condition, the number of illegals and refugees bringing in disease will eventually take a toll on them anyway. It comes down to personal responsibility.
When it comes to their health, it is a different story, totally different story.
They suffer because their parents are ignorant and/or uncaring. Most are dropped off at daycare centers where if they have a faulty immune system, it is only a matter of time before they contract something.
Not at all. Anti-Vaxxers have taken the time to study the situation and make an informed decision. I realize many aren't able to do that, thus their herd mentality to just listen to mass media and let others decide, those motivated by money, big pharma and corrupt politicians.
I had chicken pox, mumps, and rubella, just like my sibling, cousins and everyone at school, back when America was great and our immune systems actually grew stronger, probably why I don't have health issues now and pickup everything that is out there or being brought in by refugees and illegal aliens. I never remember anyone dying nor did I know anyone with autism.
Let's go another direction. Let's do genetic testing on everyone before they are allowed to reproduce. Only the strongest ones with no predisposition to genetic abnormalities will be allowed to have children, all others will be sterilized.
The cost in lives, health insurance premiums and Medicaid will decrease.
Will do the perfect world thing, eugenics. This will save us so much money and so many lives. Think of all of those that will be spared a lifetime of suffering.
I can only support sterilization for those people and government officials that want to take away the rights of others to make informed decisions about their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
Vaccinations are dangerous. Those with compromised immune systems are ticking time bombs and no reason to take the rest of us with them.
I have seen up close and personal the effect of vaccinations on a child and live with those effects every day. Learn to say "no" and be informed in order to stay ahead of big pharma and our corrupt politicians.
It's a little hard to go into hibernation until the child has had the full series of vaccines. Some can't even be given until after age 1.
See my previous response about "Big Pharma". Do quit eating due to "Big Ag", and quit driving because of "Big Auto" while you're at it.
Immigrants are required to have a medical examination, show proof of immunization and receive immunizations they haven't had. https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugee...ation-faq.html Immunization rates in Central/South America are as high or higher than ours in the US; mealses and rubella (German measles) have been declared eradicated from the western hemisphere from northern Canada to the tip of Argentina and Chile, ditto polio.
Polio vaccine is still given in the US. The only polio in the world is in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria.
Anyone who thinks they know more than the health experts world-wide is not making an informed decision.
Just because you do not remember any deaths that doesn't mean deaths didn't happen. I don't know why people say this. You were a kid! Of course you don't remember deaths, things like that. Kids with autism did not attend 'regular' schools until the 1970s. Many were institutionalized in earlier times.
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Anti-Vaxxers are like the drunk drivers of the disease vector population. And equally as in denial as an alcoholic insisting they are just "fine" to drive home.
