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Thompson fully admitted that he and his colleague's committed fraud. Nothing else in his statement takes away from that admittance.
Nothing in your link, Katarina, about Tuskegee discounts the distrust that those experiment created. No apology from Clinton or any other President negates the damage that was done and the distrust it created. The measles study happened after 1974 so I wouldn't be so sure that the National Research Act has been as protective as it should have been.
I've done nothing disgraceful by bringing this to the discussion. Talking about this is not "pulling the race card". Your accusation is unfounded and baseless.
I googled these articles. Stop harassing me, Katarina.
Please post a quote where Thompson says just that.
I am not harassing you. You claim you don't follow the anti-vax news, but you keep Gish-galloping away with one obscure article after another. YOU are the one bringing up these subjects, Tuskegee, Thompson, now LA measles 1989.
I am not harassing you. You claim you don't follow the anti-vax news, but you keep Gish-galloping away with one obscure article after another.
We all have read his letter issued through his lawyer. He admitted that they committed fraud. It's perfectly clear. I don't need to repeat it over and over. Anyone who is honest can read it and see what he said.
As I've said, I don't follow anti-vax news or belong to any groups or discussion boards. If I did, I would not be ashamed to say so. You obviously don't believe me and that is your right. It is not however your right to continually harass me about it. I already told you that I found those articles via google. If I had gotten then from the NVIC I would have said so.
You are harassing me. I've asked you to stop and you won't. This thread is not about me. If you can't stick to the topic then please move on. I am not the topic. The subjects I have brought up (Thompson, distrust, measles study, etc.) are 100% on topic.
Miss Terri, perhaps the memory of Tuskegee has been passed down by word of mouth in families from one generation to the next, along with the distrust of medicine, and government too. Believe Dad and Grandpa or believe Doctors? It is very much the same with so called Old Wives Remedies being passed down from generation to generation, and is especially true in certain cultures. Alternative Medicine is not new since "Grandma" used all those natural remedies and passed her knowledge down to her own children.
Ok, let the Medical Professionals blame Dr. Mercola, Natural News, etc, and the Internet.
We all have read his letter issued through his lawyer. He admitted that they committed fraud. It's perfectly clear. I don't need to repeat it over and over. Anyone who is honest can read it and see what he said.
As I've said, I don't follow anti-vax news or belong to any groups or discussion boards. If I did, I would not be ashamed to say so. You obviously don't believe me and that is your right. It is not however your right to continually harass me about it. I already told you that I found those articles via google. If I had gotten then from the NVIC I would have said so.
You are harassing me. I've asked you to stop and you won't. This thread is not about me. If you can't stick to the topic then please move on. I am not the topic. The subjects I have brought up (Thompson, distrust, measles study, etc.) are 100% on topic.
Thompson said no. such. thing.
I'm just trying to understand how you know to Google obscure subjects like, "measles vaccine experiment 1989". When I googled just now, "vaccine ethical errors" that did not come up. So you must have some masterful Google skills to pull up all these articles on basically long-forgotten topics. The Baltimore Sun article about blacks and flu vaccine did come up under a search of "flu vaccine", plus I had read it recently as well, but a different version that was not as negative as yours. I got that article from a vaccine group I belong to, and it was in some health publication. General assignment newspaper reporters don't always get it right either, most have no background in health care, vaccines, etc.
Miss Terri, perhaps the memory of Tuskegee has been passed down by word of mouth in families from one generation to the next, along with the distrust of medicine, and government too. Believe Dad and Grandpa or believe Doctors? It is very much the same with so called Old Wives Remedies being passed down from generation to generation, and is especially true in certain cultures. Alternative Medicine is not new since "Grandma" used all those natural remedies and passed her knowledge down to her own children.
Ok, let the Medical Professionals blame Dr. Mercola, Natural News, etc, and the Internet.
I'm sure that the story of Tuskegee has been passed down by word of mouth. It really wasn't that long ago. It took place between 1932 and 1972. It only ended after information about it was leaked to the press and the truth was uncovered. Many of us were alive while this went on. It should be a surprise to no one that this study impacted people's trust in the medical system. Yet, people claim that bringing it up is " a low blow" and "playing the race card"? Bizarre.
I'll play your little game, MissTerri. I don't quite understand you googling obscure subjects like, "measles vaccine experiment 1989". When I googled just now, "vaccine ethical errors" that did not come up. So you must have some masterful Google skills to pull up all these obscure articles. The Baltimore Sun article about blacks and flu vaccine did come up under a search of "flu vaccine", plus I had read it recently as well, but a different version that was not as negative as yours. I got that article from a vaccine group I belong to, and it was in some health publication. General assignment newspaper reporters don't always get it right either, most have no background in health care, vaccines, etc.
He did, Katarina. This is an admittance of fraud:
Quote:
I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information *in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased *risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.
For the last time, I'm not playing a game. I'm also not going to apologize for my research capabilities in using google. I did some googling and came across some information. It was not hard. I shared what I found. Moving on.....
You would be very surprised at the number of older adults who "witnessed" all you say you did and still consider themselves anti-vaxxers. If not, why aren't their vaccination rates in the 90% range either?
After all how did we manage to reach the ages we did without Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chicken Pox, FLU vaccinations? These are now as DEADLY as what you mentioned. When they come up with a vaccine for the Common Cold that too will be deadly too in order to SELL vaccinations.
Even Raif Hollister eventually got his shots......
PREFACE: I am NEITHER Anti-Vax NOR Pro-Vax. I do my research and make informed decisions. I have given my child some vaccines and refused others. (I need to start my thread this way so people don't jump to conclusions and begin flaming as usual)
Regarding vaccinations, there's no reason people should be so polarized on the topic. Nothing is black and white in life, so why would it be the case with vaccines? 100% effectiveness/ineffectiveness is even rare in medicine. C'mon, we all know that.
I'm just concerned that people go by a headline, or a shred of evidence, and suddenly they've taken an all-or-nothing stance. There are some members here (not mentioning names) that will vehemently demonize the opposing side. We're not going to learn anything that way.
I must also disclaim that I am more concerned with the spread of the pro-vax agenda, since it is big business, extremely profitable, and more far-reaching to the uninformed public.
There are academic/medical journals out there, and anyone can read the abstracts without having to pay, or if you like research, like me, for small fees you can read the studies in their entirety.
Remember, there are two primary argument concerning vaccinations: vaccine effectiveness and vaccine safety. These often get confused. Since this board leans heavily pro-vax, I just want to give some perspective on some legitimate research that exists. This is just a very small sampling:
There's lots and lots of legitimate info out there. I know it's easy to fall into one extreme end of the spectrum, but realize that there are no perfected arts, including medicine. Please stay informed.
You have sited a lot of sources. I think it naive to assume that none of these vaccinations have side effects. I'm in my sixties now and want to comment on the people who are less than one generation my senior. Some of them did not get the polio vaccine in time and the effects to these few were devastating. Polio is a heart breaker which strikes down a person who would otherwise be in full health.
For the last time, I'm not playing a game. I'm also not going to apologize for my research capabilities in using google. I did some googling and came across some information. It was not hard. I shared what I found. Moving on.....
If you want to move on, you have to acknowledge that is not an "admittance" of fraud. It is a statement of his belief! Nothing happened from this letter he sent re: that article. What did happen is that his companion in this, Brian Hooker, got his paper reanalyzing the results to Thompson's satisfaction retracted for poor methodology and unreported conflicts of interest. The CDC article stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd
You have sited a lot of sources. I think it naive to assume that none of these vaccinations have side effects. I'm in my sixties now and want to comment on the people who are less than one generation my senior. Some of them did not get the polio vaccine in time and the effects to these few were devastating. Polio is a heart breaker which strikes down a person who would otherwise be in full health.
You're correct. Of course vaccines have side effects. Most of the SE's are mild and short term. A few are neither. The risks from the diseases they prevent is much much higher. Here is a story about someone who didn't get her polio vaccine in time: How a Ballerina Can Inspire Us to Eradicate Polio*|*Ksenia Solo Other articles I have read about this dancer state that she didn't want the sore arm from the vaccine.
If you want to move on, you have to acknowledge that is not an "admittance" of fraud. It is a statement of his belief! Nothing happened from this letter he sent re: that article. What did happen is that his companion in this, Brian Hooker, got his paper reanalyzing the results to Thompson's satisfaction retracted for poor methodology and unreported conflicts of interest. The CDC article stands.
He admitted to fraud. Of course nothing happened. This was so quickly covered up it was astonishing and eye opening. This is exactly the kind of thing that erodes people's trust in the medical system.
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