Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One of the smartest segments I've heard on television in a long time, perfectly describes the roots of the USA's highly polarized culture. A majority of the posts on this P&OC forum suffer from exactly this -well intended but rabid partisans from the left and right taking uncompromising positions in the latest shouting match where 90% of the combatants lack a good grasp of the issue in discussion. They just parrot what their narrow sources tell them, their fake news trumps others fake news. Facts and expertise have become irrelevant. Thoughtful points of view are lost in the mire.
Few will read this, and the pointless threads/discussions will continue to grow.
I just wish I knew how to begin to turn the tide here...
Quote:
TOM NICHOLS, Author, “The Death of Expertise”: A few years ago, a mischievous group of pollsters asked American voters whether they would support bombing the country of Agrabah.
As you might expect, Republicans tended to support military action, while Democrats were more reluctant.
There’s only one problem: Agrabah doesn’t exist. It’s from the animated Disney film “Aladdin.” Only about half the people surveyed figured this out, and liberals and conservatives gleefully pointed fingers at each other.
For experts in foreign affairs, however, there was no way around the alarming reality that so many Americans had a well-defined view on bombing a cartoon.
I’m one of those experts. I teach both civilians and military officers about national security affairs. In my career, I have advised the Pentagon, the CIA, and political leaders from both major parties.
Increasingly, however, laypeople don’t care about expert views. Instead, many Americans have become insufferable know-it-alls, locked in constant conflict with each other, while knowing almost nothing about the subject they are debating.
How did this happen? How is it that people now not only doubt expert advice, but believe themselves to be as smart, or even smarter, than experienced professionals? Parents who refuse to vaccinate a child, for example, aren’t really questioning their doctors. They’re replacing their doctors. They have decided that attending the university of Google, as one anti-vaccine activist put it, is the same as going to medical school.
People who have no idea how much the United States spends on foreign aid think that they’re the peers of experienced diplomats. Experts in almost every field can tell similar stories.
There’s a lot of blame to go around for all of this. The smartphones and tablets that we carry around all day that we think can answer anything are only part of the problem. The American educational system, from grade school to graduate school, encourages students to think of themselves and their views as special. An A is now a common grade.
The news media, while trying to tell people what they need to hear, must compete for ears, eyes, and clicks, and so are also forced to ask them what they’d like to hear.
And even if we manage to avoid the intellectual saboteurs of the Internet, we’re still all too likely to get our news and views from social media, where a silly meme from your aunt Rose in Schenectady competes for your attention with actual information.
We need to find our way back from this ego-driven wilderness. Historically, people return to valuing expert views in times of trouble or distress. We’re all willing to argue with our doctors until our fever is out of control.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. But that’s where we’re headed. And unless we start accepting the limitations of our own knowledge, then each of us is failing in our obligation to participate in our democracy as involved, but informed citizens.
One of the smartest segments I've heard on television in a long time, perfectly describes the roots of the USA's highly polarized culture. A majority of the posts on this P&OC forum suffer from exactly this -well intended but rabid partisans from the left and right taking uncompromising positions in the latest shouting match where 90% of the combatants lack a good grasp of the issue in discussion. They just parrot what their narrow sources tell them, their fake news trumps others fake news. Facts and expertise have become irrelevant. Thoughtful points of view are lost in the mire.
Few will read this, and the pointless threads/discussions will continue to grow.
I just wish I knew how to begin to turn the tide here...
"90% of the combatants lack a good grasp of the issue in discussion"
Of course that all depends on which side of the issue you find yourself and who agrees/disagrees with you.
I'll file this away with official, verified and fact checked truth.
How did this happen? How is it that people now not only doubt expert advice, but believe themselves to be as smart, or even smarter, than experienced professionals?
Let's see...they took us into Iraq twice, cratered the housing market, created ISIS, ....
The rabid partisanship is more simple than that, I think. Some posters on C-D just like to fight. Since they are cowards and can't attack others in real life with insults and rants because there would be serious repercussions, they do it anonymously here. I've got a boatload of those people on ignore because they offer nothing to any conversation.
On the other hand, some partisan posters make intelligent posts and I enjoy their well written, well thought out points, even if I may disagree with their logic or conclusions. None of us are experts on most subjects discussed on P&OC. This is an opinion discussion board after all.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 04-15-2017 at 08:30 AM..
Maybe if the so-called experts didn't make so many costly mistakes people would have more faith in them.
Transparency would also go a long way toward creating more trust in the experts.
This is why I oppose the get-out-the-vote drives as well as wanting to remove the straight ticket option and all party designations on general election ballots.
IMO, the political part of this started when the Fairness Doctrine and Equal time on American citizen owned airwaves was rescinded.
It would help if the tv and print media would check stories on the wire services before repeating them. The story about Nevada Democratic convention Sanders delegates throwing chairs never happened. It was all over the place for days before the PBS reporter was fired. Wonder how many think it is true? Stories like that example are repeated daily.
I also think drugs approved for use and then later found to cause harm are another way citizens doubt institutional wisdom.
Getting lied to enter wars has all of us doubting ourselves and our leaders. The Gulf of Tonkin and My Lai created grave doubt in me regarding anything military. WMD in Iraq and Abu Ghraib was no surprise.
But, if I were to accept the limitations of my knowledge of statistics, i could never buy a lotto ticket. That would take the fun out of fantasy.
I'd say an expert is someone who has sufficient experience and knowledge in a field to be able to recognize novel patterns from noise. Or, more abstractly, it's the ability to collapse possibilities of a topic/domain to their most salient in order to decide/act meaningfully.
I just had a "conversation" with a poster here, (I really didn't want to, but he quoted me). He said, he is an expert and I know nothing about.. (insert a subject here) I think people should be careful of what they post on a public forum, if they want to be taken a little bit more seriously. I am not saying that person is a bad person, but it is safe to assume this is not the type of person I can learn anything from. "I am the expert, you know nothing." is not even an argument.
To becoming an expert requires not only the skills, knowledge and experience, there is more to it.
The process of becoming informed about politics looks more like a web than a linear set of steps; you slowly build off what you learn. It’s a slow process so just have fun with the information you are learning about and before you know it, you’ll find yourself referencing and formulating political thought. Does it make you an "expert"? The answer is no.
Do I think politicians are experts in politics? Yes and no. Some successful ones know how to play the game, but fair and balanced? No, I don't think there are any fair and balanced politicians in the United States.
James Madison warned against the dangers of factionalism. And in his farewell address, George Washington called “party dissension” a kind of “frightful despotism,” warning that a party leader would be prone to pursue his own agenda “to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.”
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 04-15-2017 at 08:51 AM..
One of the smartest segments I've heard on television in a long time, perfectly describes the roots of the USA's highly polarized culture. A majority of the posts on this P&OC forum suffer from exactly this -well intended but rabid partisans from the left and right taking uncompromising positions in the latest shouting match where 90% of the combatants lack a good grasp of the issue in discussion. They just parrot what their narrow sources tell them, their fake news trumps others fake news. Facts and expertise have become irrelevant. Thoughtful points of view are lost in the mire.
Few will read this, and the pointless threads/discussions will continue to grow.
I just wish I knew how to begin to turn the tide here...
Good luck with turning the tide
I think it has a lot to do with the sheer amount of information available and the effort it takes to sift through it all. Rational study...interpretation...contextual application, are all hard and require a willingness to suspend belief in a conclusion until one is proven. What fun is there in that?
Belief is easier..just pick a side and roll with it..inconvenient facts are ignored or folded into a conspiracy theory. I think a lot of people feel dis-empowered, here, in the 21st century. Conspiracy theories, them against us, gives these people someone to blame, often for issues and events that have multiple causes.
C-D...P&OC is a great place to rant..and gives those who feel dis-empowered a sense of accomplishment..a sense of community with the other people who feel the same way, and it gives them an enemy..someone concrete to blame and rail against. I guess it's harmless--for the most part.
LOL - thanks to the world's greatest propaganda ministry, millions of Americans - experts included - couldn't accurately define the republican form of government, nor its source and origin, despite it being promised in Art. 4, Sec. 4, USCON.
(No, it's not synonymous with a republic, nor is it a constitutional republic. In fact, no constitution can create a republican form. And ironically, there is only ONE NATION on Earth with a republican form, and 99.999% of its people don't know what it is.)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
