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A hazard? lol Like the pesticide your neighbor is using kind of hazard? Like the hazard from eating fruits from the grocery laden with pesticide? We live with hazard. You make it sound like they're murders. That's just an exaggeration. The numbers just aren't there. What, you believe the science as absolute truth yet you don't believe in the math?
The risk is simply not big enough to warrant a mandate. Now, the amount of money pharma needs to make to keep making vaccines without losing money is worth a mandate. The numbers fit there. With the information age, it's just difficult to sell us on this fear.
The bottom line is that anti-vaxxer's in 1st world countries get to whine about conspiracy theories & gamble with their health ...but only thanks to the fact that majority of the population vaccinates.
Here's someone from a first world country who wasn't so lucky: Measles teen dies in Lisbon | Portugal Resident "The first fatality as a result of the measles epidemic now taking hold in Portugal was announced this morning by RTP news.
The 17-year-old girl had been fighting for life in Lisbon’s Dona Estefânia hospital since the weekend, suffering from bilateral pneumonia.
. . .
It was not immediately explained whether the teen was one of the several people who contracted measles in spite of having been previously vaccinated - but a report in Expresso has subsequently confirmed that she was not."
There's a little more, but that's my allowable three sentences.
Do you have teens? What you do to force a HPV or Flu Shot on them? Ground them? The "sentence" doesn't warrant the "crime" over that in my book. There are far worse things that a teenager can do than just refuse those vaccinations. Take that from a Granny.
I guess it depends on how one raises their children & the level of expectations set when it comes to behavior.
I have two teens & a 9 year old...they all know better than to act like asses when it comes to decisions my husband and I make for them - especially when it comes to their healthcare. They trust us & they don't tell us how "it's going to be" when it comes to anything. We tell THEM.
When they have their own families, they can make their own decisions for their children. As I expect that they will.
Last edited by Informed Info; 04-20-2017 at 09:59 PM..
Real science is only as good as the people behind it. Unfortunately, the people behind it can be swayed by funding. They need the job, and we are a for profit healthcare system. The government cuts funding often and they rely on businesses. The science isn't very good when scientist are influenced by pharma companies.
The problem is when people like you ask the public in a for profit system to trust the healthcare industry. Then you want mandates to guarantee funds. It's very see through, and some people will want choice under those circumstances, at least those who know what you are saying is not true. With so many deceptions, the public has the right to choice.
Vaccines are the most rigorously regulated pharmaceuticals we have. The safety data come from around the world, including countries with national health insurance and systems where there is access to health records on every citizen.
There is no such thing as a "not for profit" health system anywhere. Any program - universal or not - has to take in enough to cover future expansion and ongoing maintenance.
If you want to take vaccines - or all drugs - out of the private sector, how do you propose to pay for them, including research and development? Are you willing to see your tax money used for it?
Sorry, the "it's all for the money" argument just does not hold water.
You are free to choose not to vaccinate. Just be willing to accept the consequences, including not having your kids in public school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta
A hazard? lol Like the pesticide your neighbor is using kind of hazard? Like the hazard from eating fruits from the grocery laden with pesticide? We live with hazard. You make it sound like they're murders. That's just an exaggeration. The numbers just aren't there. What, you believe the science as absolute truth yet you don't believe in the math?
The risk is simply not big enough to warrant a mandate. Now, the amount of money pharma needs to make to keep making vaccines without losing money is worth a mandate. The numbers fit there. With the information age, it's just difficult to sell us on this fear.
Like the unvaccinated baby who caught measles in "Dr. Bob" Sears's office from an unvaccinated child who went to Europe and came back with the disease. That kind of hazard. The baby had to be hospitalized.
Like the immunosuppressed woman in Washington State who died from measles pneumonia in 2015. That kind of hazard.
Like the almost 21,000 cases of pertussis in the US in 2015. That kind of hazard. From 2000 through 2014, there were 277 deaths from whooping cough reported in the United States. Almost all of the deaths (241 of the 277) were babies younger than 3 months of age, who were too young to get the vaccine.
Like the 72 children who have died from flu in the US during the 2016-2017 season. That kind of hazard.
"The risk is simply not big enough" only where vaccination rates are high enough to preserve herd immunity. There are locations in the US where herd immunity does not exist because there are large numbers of vaccine refusers clustered together.
You want people to stop vaccinating. Do that and we will be seeing millions of cases of vaccine preventable diseases and thousands of deaths - just like before the vaccines. That is even with modern medicines to treat secondary infections and intensive care units to try to keep organs from failing.
Here's someone from a first world country who wasn't so lucky: Measles teen dies in Lisbon | Portugal Resident "The first fatality as a result of the measles epidemic now taking hold in Portugal was announced this morning by RTP news.
The 17-year-old girl had been fighting for life in Lisbon’s Dona Estefânia hospital since the weekend, suffering from bilateral pneumonia.
. . .
It was not immediately explained whether the teen was one of the several people who contracted measles in spite of having been previously vaccinated - but a report in Expresso has subsequently confirmed that she was not."
There's a little more, but that's my allowable three sentences.
Here's more:
Quote:
Her mother is apparently "anti-vaccines" and a fan of homeopathy, said the paper.
The teen caught the virus from a baby admitted into Cascais hospital with measles.
The same baby - who has since made a full recovery - went on to infect a number of health professionals (depending on which papers one reads, the number is either four or five), all of whom were apparently previously vaccinated against measles.
Measles was virtually eradicated in Portugal in 1994.
Quote:
In a follow-up on the measles situation in Portugal, the head of the Directorate-General for Health in Portugal, Francisco George said the measles case tally has risen to 21 confirmed cases, and another 18 under investigation, according to Portuguese media (computer translated).
The focus of this outbreak is due, George explained, to a group of children who were not vaccinated at their parents’ option.
CNN)An outbreak of measles is spreading across Italy, with more than 1,600 cases of the disease reported in 2017, across 19 of the country's 21 regions.
The outbreak adds to concern among European health officials who have been monitoring an ongoing outbreak in Romania, where almost 4,800 cases have been reported since the start of 2016. The country has also seen 21 deaths, according to the World Health Organization.
Quote:
"Italy has had suboptimal coverage for many years now," said Butler, adding that vaccine coverage for measles has fallen every year since 2012. The country saw a large outbreak in 2014, when 4,350 people were infected.
Of the 1,603 cases reported this year, as of April 16, 88% are known to be unvaccinated.
In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year, according to WHO estimates.
Another country that has suffered from a decline in measles vaccination is the UK, with 56 measles cases reported in England and Wales in 1998 but 547 cases in 2016.
In 2015 there were about 367 deaths from measles every day around the world.
Good point. I'd also rather do that than hold the child down for an IV because he got a VPD.
In point of fact, if the parent follows the schedule, the child will be fully vaccinated by two, actually by 18 months if there are no interruptions in the schedule. Then all they need is their annual flu vaccine until they go to kindergarten.
Let's see 'em! "Fear" is part of the anti-vax mantra, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info
The bottom line is that anti-vaxxer's in 1st world countries get to whine about conspiracy theories & gamble with their health ...but only thanks to the fact that majority of the population vaccinates.
You are all welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Here's someone from a first world country who wasn't so lucky: Measles teen dies in Lisbon | Portugal Resident "The first fatality as a result of the measles epidemic now taking hold in Portugal was announced this morning by RTP news.
The 17-year-old girl had been fighting for life in Lisbon’s Dona Estefânia hospital since the weekend, suffering from bilateral pneumonia.
. . .
It was not immediately explained whether the teen was one of the several people who contracted measles in spite of having been previously vaccinated - but a report in Expresso has subsequently confirmed that she was not."
There's a little more, but that's my allowable three sentences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Informed Info
I guess it depends on how one raises their children & the level of expectations set when it comes to behavior.
I have two teens & a 9 year old...they all know better than to act like asses when it comes to decisions my husband and I make for them - especially when it comes to their healthcare. They trust us & they don't tell us how "it's going to be" when it comes to anything. We tell THEM.
When they have their own families, they can make their own decisions for their children. As I expect that they will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Vaccines are the most rigorously regulated pharmaceuticals we have. The safety data come from around the world, including countries with national health insurance and systems where there is access to health records on every citizen.
There is no such thing as a "not for profit" health system anywhere. Any program - universal or not - has to take in enough to cover future expansion and ongoing maintenance.
If you want to take vaccines - or all drugs - out of the private sector, how do you propose to pay for them, including research and development? Are you willing to see your tax money used for it?
Sorry, the "it's all for the money" argument just does not hold water.
You are free to choose not to vaccinate. Just be willing to accept the consequences, including not having your kids in public school.
Like the unvaccinated baby who caught measles in "Dr. Bob" Sears's office from an unvaccinated child who went to Europe and came back with the disease. That kind of hazard. The baby had to be hospitalized.
Like the immunosuppressed woman in Washington State who died from measles pneumonia in 2015. That kind of hazard.
Like the almost 21,000 cases of pertussis in the US in 2015. That kind of hazard. From 2000 through 2014, there were 277 deaths from whooping cough reported in the United States. Almost all of the deaths (241 of the 277) were babies younger than 3 months of age, who were too young to get the vaccine.
Like the 72 children who have died from flu in the US during the 2016-2017 season. That kind of hazard.
"The risk is simply not big enough" only where vaccination rates are high enough to preserve herd immunity. There are locations in the US where herd immunity does not exist because there are large numbers of vaccine refusers clustered together.
You want people to stop vaccinating. Do that and we will be seeing millions of cases of vaccine preventable diseases and thousands of deaths - just like before the vaccines. That is even with modern medicines to treat secondary infections and intensive care units to try to keep organs from failing.
It's like the apocalypse isn't' it. Run for them hills because wees dying from those anti vaccine murders. Besides, they're "vaccine safety" now, not anti vaxer. You should really keep up to speed. LMAO!
Let's see how many pages of fear for your life, copy and paste wars you guys can do this time around.
Oh, and I just want to take the time to thank all of those who wash their hands after they potty, thanks for keeping people alive by being clean. lmao......seriously, we all thank you for your vigilance. Without you guys, all of us ignoramuses would cause world wide destruction. Thanks again, and again.
Come to think of it.....wash your hands mandate sounds pretty good......
It's like the apocalypse isn't' it. Run for them hills because wees dying from those anti vaccine murders. Besides, they're "vaccine safety" now, not anti vaxer. You should really keep up to speed. LMAO!
Let's see how many pages of fear for your life, copy and paste wars you guys can do this time around.
Oh, and I just want to take the time to thank all of those who wash their hands after they potty, thanks for keeping people alive by being clean. lmao......seriously, we all thank you for your vigilance. Without you guys, all of us ignoramuses would cause world wide destruction. Thanks again, and again.
Come to think of it.....wash your hands mandate sounds pretty good......
They may wish the anti-vax label will go away but that is not going to happen. Anti-vaxers will never see a vaccine they consider "safe" enough.
You can dip your hands in boiling water after you "potty". It will not keep you from getting measles if you are susceptible and exposed.
You just proved my point. Anyone can get influenza and end up hospitalized from it, even die from it. Perfectly healthy children die from flu every year. About 90% of them were not vaccinated.
The problem is that the people who want anti-vaccinationism to be about "safety" reject the enormous pile of evidence that shows that vaccines are safe. They will never, ever, ever admit that a vaccine is safe enough to satisfy their definition of safe.
There is more money to be made in treating vaccine preventable diseases than in selling vaccines. The "making so much money" argument just does not fly.
The problem with the "very small group" of those who refuse all vaccines is that they like to live in clusters. That makes them a hazard to their entire community.
Show some proof of your "cluster" comment. Or is it just opinion like most of the posts you do?
U.S. Army health officials in Europe are warning military families about an outbreak of measles on the Continent, cautioning that adults and children not vaccinated against the virus could be at risk for infection, particularly when traveling around Europe.
There have been no reported cases among Defense Department dependents in Europe, a Regional Health Command Europe spokesman said.
As of March 12, Germany has reported 272 cases since the beginning of the year; in the same period last year, Germany reported 18 cases, according to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Iceland, Hungary, Portugal, Spain and Sweden have also experienced a few cases.
Almost all cases have occurred in individuals not properly immunized against the disease, officials said.
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