Racism and evolution (Clinton, crime rates, compared, Michigan)

[green_mariner]

Note that intelligence is not one of those traits by which you can deduce a person's racial ancestry. Among other reasons, intelligence is produced by the effects of at least dozens of genes which are recombined and passed on to the next generation independently of each other. Which is why a thoroughly average couple can produce a highly intelligent child whom they cannot understand. And of course it's also why a pair of highly intelligent mathematicians can produce a child whose main interest is collecting pulltabs.

jacqueg, there is something I thought of when I read your post. I thought about an essay written by Thomas Sowell "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". Mental tests were done on soldiers during World War I. Blacks from northern states like Ohio and New York did better on mental tests than Whites from Kentucky and Alabama. In Massachusetts during the early 20th century, Black children were more likely to score high on IQ tests than the children of Polish and Portuguese immigrants. Northern Blacks scored higher on mental tests than Southern Blacks. The vast majority of Blacks in the 1910s lived in the South, often in the poor, backwater areas of the South.

If intelligence was all about race, there is something that would have to be explained. What explains Nigerian immigrants who come here today, and do better in school than Black American students? What would explain academic performance of Whites living in the South during the 1900s vs Whites in New England?

[Supachai]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

jacqueg, there is something I thought of when I read your post. I thought about an essay written by Thomas Sowell "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". Mental tests were done on soldiers during World War I. Blacks from northern states like Ohio and New York did better on mental tests than Whites from Kentucky and Alabama. In Massachusetts during the early 20th century, Black children were more likely to score high on IQ tests than the children of Polish and Portuguese immigrants. Northern Blacks scored higher on mental tests than Southern Blacks. The vast majority of Blacks in the 1910s lived in the South, often in the poor, backwater areas of the South.

If intelligence was all about race, there is something that would have to be explained. What explains Nigerian immigrants who come here today, and do better in school than Black American students? What would explain academic performance of Whites living in the South during the 1900s vs Whites in New England?

There is variation within races. A race is not a group of clones who are all the same in every way. Within Europe, some groups outperform others. Germans outscore Greeks on IQ tests and international scholastic assessments. And within Germany, northern Germans outscore southern Germans. Within Nigeria, some tribes dominate other tribes in terms of economics and intelligence. The Igbo are such a tribe and the majority of emigrants from Nigeria are from the Igbo tribe.

The average of one group does not determine the makeup of an individual from that group. Overall, Swedes are blonder than Italians, but that doesn't mean that every Swede is blond or that there aren't blond Italians. This really shouldn't have to be explained.

[The Dark Enlightenment]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

jacqueg, there is something I thought of when I read your post. I thought about an essay written by Thomas Sowell "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". Mental tests were done on soldiers during World War I. Blacks from northern states like Ohio and New York did better on mental tests than Whites from Kentucky and Alabama. In Massachusetts during the early 20th century, Black children were more likely to score high on IQ tests than the children of Polish and Portuguese immigrants. Northern Blacks scored higher on mental tests than Southern Blacks. The vast majority of Blacks in the 1910s lived in the South, often in the poor, backwater areas of the South.

If intelligence was all about race, there is something that would have to be explained. What explains Nigerian immigrants who come here today, and do better in school than Black American students? What would explain academic performance of Whites living in the South during the 1900s vs Whites in New England?

You misunderstand. Nobody says that. And there is no reason to think that all members of the same race would have the same level of intelligence. The number of people making these claims is literally zero. You are also mistaken in assuming that, if one group is more intelligent than another on average, then all members of that group should be more intelligent than all of the other group at all times in all places.

[The Dark Enlightenment]

Originally Posted by Supachai

There is variation within races. A race is not a group of clones who are all the same in every way. Within Europe, some groups outperform others. Germans outscore Greeks on IQ tests and international scholastic assessments. And within Germany, northern Germans outscore southern Germans. Within Nigeria, some tribes dominate other tribes in terms of economics and intelligence. The Igbo are such a tribe and the majority of emigrants from Nigeria are from the Igbo tribe.

The average of one group does not determine the makeup of an individual from that group. Overall, Swedes are blonder than Italians, but that doesn't mean that every Swede is blond or that there aren't blond Italians. This really shouldn't have to be explained.

Certainly one good explanation, as you have just provided, ought to be enough. But we've been through all this before and see the same misconceptions over and over here from many of the same people.

[ReineDeCoeur]

I reject racism and evolution.

Originally Posted by bawac34618

EDIT: In all actuality, it's impossible to account for the difference in race using the creationist timeline. There is simply no way to get the kind of differences we see between African-Americans, Caucasians, Jews, Arabs, Asians, and Native Americans within less than 4,000 years.

African-Americans are not a race but a fairly recent American cultural group.

[Supachai]

Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment

Certainly one good explanation, as you have just provided, ought to be enough. But we've been through all this before and see the same misconceptions over and over here from many of the same people.

I don't think it's that they don't understand these concepts. They pretend not to because it goes against their worldview and causes them a great deal of cognitive dissonance. Belief in universal human equality is something that is a matter of faith, as there is certainly no evidence to back up that belief.

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Good4Nothin

Maybe racism has always been around, but what made it scientific and very widely accepted was the Darwinian theory of how species evolved. That is what led to eugenics, which was extremely popular for a while, and eventually inspired the Nazi holocaust.

First please understand -- I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. However, I do not believe in the chance plus natural selection theory that is still the most popular version of evolution.

Darwinism says that species evolve gradually and continuously. It says that evolution towards greater "fitness" happens because of natural selection. It says that our species became intelligent because of natural selection -- because greater intelligence resulted in better survival and procreation.

There are many things wrong with that theory. It has never been proven, and there is no scientific evidence to support it. I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. However, it is obvious to me that the cause of evolution is not known.

But if you believe in Darwin's version of evolution, then you MUST BE A RACIST.

Horrors! What if you are a liberal, how can you accept racism?

If our species evolved gradually, and if intelligence increased as a result of survival pressures and natural selection, then some ethnic or racial groups MUST be more intelligent than others!

Lots of liberals consider themselves educated and scientific, and go along with whatever nonsense the scientific establishment has decreed. So they accept evolution by chance and natural selection.

At the same time, they hate racism.

Sorry, can't have it both ways.

Your comment makes me fantasize about a comet blowing up the earth. Then I realize that would be bad. Then I realize it's just a fantasy and so it's not doing anyone any harm, and I go back to fantasizing again.

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Supachai

I don't think it's that they don't understand these concepts. They pretend not to because it goes against their worldview and causes them a great deal of cognitive dissonance. Belief in universal human equality is something that is a matter of faith, as there is certainly no evidence to back up that belief.

Nobody believe in universal human equality, in terms of innate skill. The goal of some people though is to give them a more or less equal starting point, and possibly a safety net for later. That's about as close as anyone gets to that. You appear to be making a strawman.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by Good4Nothin

Maybe racism has always been around...

Ya think?

but what made it scientific and very widely accepted was the Darwinian theory of how species evolved.

It was "very widely accepted" that black people could be hunted down and sold as livestock centuries before Darwin formulated his insights, so...

That is what led to eugenics, which was extremely popular for a while, and eventually inspired the Nazi holocaust.

Yeah, the centuries-long Christian tradition for antisemitism had nothing to do with it.

First please understand -- I BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. However, I do not believe in the chance plus natural selection theory that is still the most popular version of evolution.

Then, frankly, you're not really backing the ToE, because speciation via genetic variance and selection is pretty much the core concept.

There are many things wrong with that theory.

I am sure you will outline some.

It has never been proven

Theories aren't proven, they're supported. Or disproven.

and there is no scientific evidence to support it.

Tons of it.

If our species evolved gradually, and if intelligence increased as a result of survival pressures and natural selection, then some ethnic or racial groups MUST be more intelligent than others!

The word "must", even in all caps, is not an argument. Are you going to present one?

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by NHartphotog

The individuals with higher natural intellects and work ethic would have inevitably gone off in search of better pastures, once the old pastures couldn't be improved more.

All the dogs in the neighborhood just perked their ears. Wonder why?