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Old 05-18-2017, 06:36 AM
 
7,834 posts, read 5,465,084 times
Reputation: 3213

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
A large portion of Americans seem to be against social programs even though it may be for the common good. When there is talk of the (on average) much better social programs in many European countries the general response is "well, they have to spend more on taxes". To which I ask.....so? If it meant far better health care, far better maternity leave, etc. isn't that worth it? Do not the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?
Well....there was a study done at Harvard that asked:


Why Doesn’t The US Have A
European-Style Welfare State?


Conclusion:

......The behavioral explanations also seem very important. Racial fragmentation in the US and the disproportionate representation of minorities among the poor has clearly played a major role in stopping rich-poor redistribution within the US, and, indeed, across the world racial cleavages seem to serve as a barrier to redistribution. This history of American redistribution makes it quite clear that hostility to welfare comes in part from the fact that welfare spending in the US goes disproportionately to minorities. Also Americans dislike redistribution because they feel that people on welfare are lazy.

Europeans feel that people on welfare are unfortunate. Apart from the fact that in the US there is indeed a higher connection between effort and earnings than Europe, we don't know what explains these differences in beliefs.

Our bottom line is that Americans redistribute less than Europeans because (1) the majority believes that redistribution favors racial minorities, (2) Americans believe that they live in an open and fair society and that if someone is poor it is their own fault, and (3) the political system is geared towards preventing redistribution. In fact the political system is likely to be endogenous to these basic American beliefs........

 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:38 AM
 
17,366 posts, read 8,373,044 times
Reputation: 6643
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXStrat View Post
You can quote facts and figures all day long. Have you actually lived it? Have you lived in the United Kingdom, and used the National Health Service? I have, first hand. My wife nearly suffered a burst appendix because of the wait times associated with getting her into surgery. Post surgery, she spent the next 2 days in a 10 bed open bay ward, with patients being treated for everything from cancer, to pneumonia. This open bay room had unscreened windows that opened to street level on a major thoroughfare. Nothing like a healthy dose flying insects and diesel fumes to speed the healing process.

Everyone in the U.S. has access to care now. Hospitals cannot refuse to treat patients. We have Medicare, and Medicaid. Everyone is required by law to have insurance now. It sounds as if you just want free care, no matter how much it lowers the standard of care, so long as you don't have to pay, and everyone has the same lower level of care. Duly noted.
I don't have healthcare insurance because I refuse to pay for deadbeats.

I pay my way.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: PGI
720 posts, read 180,583 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
A large portion of Americans seem to be against social programs even though it may be for the common good. When there is talk of the (on average) much better social programs in many European countries the general response is "well, they have to spend more on taxes". To which I ask.....so? If it meant far better health care, far better maternity leave, etc. isn't that worth it? Do not the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?
So many Americans have blindly pledged their allegiance to political parties that American freedom is being threatened. Republicans and Democrats alike have been dividing this country for so long most Americans identify by party rather than country.

The political parties have become corporatists and are working for the wealthy because that's where they get their campaign cash. Politicians pay back the big donors with tax breaks and corporate welfare.

Social programs depend on tax revenue to survive. But if the corrupt politicians are giving away all the tax dollars to the fat cats, something has to be cut or this country goes broke. So they vilify social programs as being programs that help the lazy and worthless. And the party loyalists swallow it hook, line and sinker, even if they are the ones getting screwed.

Now THAT'S some serious brain washing!
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:41 AM
 
59,869 posts, read 23,305,348 times
Reputation: 11668
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXStrat View Post
You can quote facts and figures all day long. Have you actually lived it? Have you lived in the United Kingdom, and used the National Health Service? I have, first hand. My wife nearly suffered a burst appendix because of the wait times associated with getting her into surgery. Post surgery, she spent the next 2 days in a 10 bed open bay ward, with patients being treated for everything from cancer, to pneumonia. This open bay room had unscreened windows that opened to street level on a major thoroughfare. Nothing like a healthy dose flying insects and diesel fumes to speed the healing process.

Everyone in the U.S. has access to care now. Hospitals cannot refuse to treat patients. We have Medicare, and Medicaid. Everyone is required by law to have insurance now. It sounds as if you just want free care, no matter how much it lowers the standard of care, so long as you don't have to pay, and everyone has the same lower level of care. Duly noted.
Everyone is NOT required by law to have health care.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,431 posts, read 9,640,969 times
Reputation: 5435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
It's not for the lack of trying, they just didn't get enough electoral votes.
Except that the states who are the net takers of federal money are the 'red' states, with residents against government "handouts" to "those people." Meanwhile, these working-class residents, who may be Trump voters do, in fact, receive a lots those government handouts

These red state residents almost totally dependent on Social Security when they retirement and Medicare for health care too. Many are quite dependent on food stamps, and a great many, especially Kentucky, benefited from Expanded Medicaid under Obamacare. Many also receive disability.

So, while they may rail against government handouts, they don't want their benefits to go away. But these people delude themselves into thinking that they really don't benefit of government programs, or that they're not getting the "good welfare," which only goes to "those people."
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:46 AM
 
34,434 posts, read 15,663,686 times
Reputation: 10347
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Voluntary charity is a blessing.
Compulsory charity is a curse.
Government "taking" from one to "give" to another, under threat, duress, and/or coercion isn't voluntary charity.
Someone's Irresponsibility Becomes Someone Else’s Responsibility. Government has forced people's irresponsibility onto others.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,390 posts, read 393,070 times
Reputation: 490
Welfare belongs in the hands of those in this order:

Yourself
Family
Friends
Freewill charities
Local government
State government

The federal government has no business in a citizens personal needs or wants.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:48 AM
 
Location: the Sticks
4,209 posts, read 1,050,491 times
Reputation: 2142
Ok first. If Americans wanted to be Europe we would find someone to mooch from and pay for our national defense.
Second. Americans are not Europeans. Our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

Third Americans don't like paying for people to free load. We do it, but we hate it.

Americans typically prefer smaller government over a nanny state.
Unfortunately we are slowly being taught to rely on big brother to think for us. After all, our elected reps no what we need more than we do. They know how to manage our money better than we do. They know what is best for us, as parents do for challenged children. People are buying into the scam that big government is the answer.
Me? I am leaving in 9 months to live else where.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:48 AM
 
7,834 posts, read 5,465,084 times
Reputation: 3213
Like I pointed out in the study presented in my previous post, its largely due to race. Look at Canada. The US is the ONLY majority white western nation without such policies. If not for the history of slavery and racial animus, and the perception that blacks are lazy and want something for nothing, as well as, those who want to see small government as a means of preventing the government from repairing what was done to blacks.....the US has become an anomaly.

The only legal means of racism is via the politics of denial. Deny black people what they seek. There would be far fewer white republicans if not for the issue of race and there would be far more black republicans if not for race. Republicans are the entity that keeps social policies at a minimum.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:51 AM
 
45 posts, read 12,031 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
Welfare belongs in the hands of those in this order:

Yourself
Family
Friends
Freewill charities
Local government
State government

The federal government has no business in a citizens personal needs or wants.
So a representative federal government by and for the people has no business tending to the needs of the People?

I don't see how you come to your conclusion.
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