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Old 05-18-2017, 06:54 AM
 
55,817 posts, read 21,184,106 times
Reputation: 10896

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
[T]he government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government.
-James Madison
Neither is interfering in the business of other countries. I'm willing to make this trade.......fewer welfare programs and we bring every single soldier home.

 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,129 posts, read 284,814 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukerZ View Post
So a representative federal government by and for the people has no business tending to the needs of the People?

I don't see how you come to your conclusion.
Would you like a very long list of founders quotes that back my assertion?
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,430 posts, read 9,142,689 times
Reputation: 5430
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimChi2PG View Post
So many Americans have blindly pledged their allegiance to political parties that American freedom is being threatened. Republicans and Democrats alike have been dividing this country for so long most Americans identify by party rather than country.

The political parties have become corporatists and are working for the wealthy because that's where they get their campaign cash. Politicians pay back the big donors with tax breaks and corporate welfare.

Social programs depend on tax revenue to survive. But if the corrupt politicians are giving away all the tax dollars to the fat cats, something has to be cut or this country goes broke. So they vilify social programs as being programs that help the lazy and worthless. And the party loyalists swallow it hook, line and sinker, even if they are the ones getting screwed.

Now THAT'S some serious brain washing!
What you falsely argue is that both parties are equally culpable. While the Republican Party, can be categorized as the party that caters to fat-cats, that's not true for the Democrats. How do I know? Just look at the policies that each party pushes.

Republicans push tax-cuts for the rich -- which included no estate taxes and low or no dividend taxes and lower capital gains and upper ordinary income brackets. Republicans also try to cut Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid -- three programs that the rich will never need. The same can be said of Republican hostility to providing health care.

Democrats, on the other side, created Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, over the complete objection of Republicans. They also created the ACA, that has added tens of millions to the insurance roles who were formerly uninsured.

Why did the Democrats create these programs? It sure wasn't to help the wealthy, since these programs rely upon tax money for funding. Instead, it reflects the moral conscience that says that we should be making the lives of most Americans better and not just cater to the rich.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:57 AM
 
55,817 posts, read 21,184,106 times
Reputation: 10896
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
What you falsely argue is that both parties are equally culpable. While the Republican Party, can be categorized as the party that caters to fat-cats, that's not true for the Democrats. How do I know? Just look at the policies that each party pushes.

Republicans push tax-cuts for the rich -- which included no estate taxes and low or no dividend taxes and lower capital gains and upper ordinary income brackets. Republicans also try to cut Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid -- three programs that the rich will never need. The same can be said of Republican hostility to providing health care.

Democrats, on the other side, created Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, over the complete objection of Republicans. They also created the ACA, that has added tens of millions to the insurance roles who were formerly uninsured.

Why did the Democrats create these programs? It sure wasn't to help the wealthy, since these programs rely upon tax money for funding. Instead, it reflects the moral conscience that says that we should be making the lives of most Americans better and not just cater to the rich.
It is the wealthy that have benefitted with the ACA. Many who have it can't afford to use it because of Wall Street running it.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:58 AM
 
45 posts, read 10,671 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Ok first. If Americans wanted to be Europe we would find someone to mooch from and pay for our national defense.
Second. Americans are not Europeans. Our ancestors left Europe for a reason.

Third Americans don't like paying for people to free load. We do it, but we hate it.

Americans typically prefer smaller government over a nanny state.
Unfortunately we are slowly being taught to rely on big brother to think for us. After all, our elected reps no what we need more than we do. They know how to manage our money better than we do. They know what is best for us, as parents do for challenged children. People are buying into the scam that big government is the answer.
Me? I am leaving in 9 months to live else where.
The US is monetarily sovereign. It can pay any bill at any time. The only constraint to federal spending is inflationary concern.

What free loading are you referencing? Farm subsidies? Corporate subsidies? Free governmental R&D paid for by the government and given to private interests for profit? There are all sorts of spending that I don't agree with but in a representative government with competing interests, you get that sometimes.

The US population is always growing. Why on earth would anyone propose smaller government to meet the needs of governing a growing population? The US is not even in the same universe as a 'nanny state.'

Why wouldn't you want your government to provide strong infrastructure for the success of the people? Hell, when the country was settled, it was the government doing the settling while the robber barons profited. From cleansing the indians from the country to make it safe for expansion to the government sponsored railroads symbolizing Manifest Destiny, government has played a big role in American life. From the legal system, property laws, minted money, the GI Bill...American prosperity is tied intimately to its representative democratic republican form of government.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,129 posts, read 284,814 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Neither is interfering in the business of other countries. I'm willing to make this trade.......fewer welfare programs and we bring every single soldier home.
While national defense is more complicated and broad now, yes, we are likely overstepping our military footprint.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:59 AM
 
49,816 posts, read 20,903,506 times
Reputation: 5814
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukerZ View Post
I understand that. But do poor children choose to be impoverished. 1/5 go to bed hungry. Did they decide that?
I'm not buying that fake and manipulative stat, and here's why...

Income-eligible children on food stamps: 24% obese
Income-eligible children NOT on food stamps: 20% obese
Non-poor children who of course don't even qualify for food stamps: 13% obese

Income-eligible adults on food stamps: 44% obese
Income-eligible adults NOT on food stamps: 33% obese
Non-poor adults who of course don't even qualify for food stamps: 32% obese

Exhibit 5, here:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/defaul...-SNAP07-10.pdf

Eliminate Food Stamps. Keep WIC, but add more restrictions on what can be purchased with WIC benefits.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 07:00 AM
 
45 posts, read 10,671 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
Would you like a very long list of founders quotes that back my assertion?
Sure why not. And can you answer my question directly without the imposition of quotes that you think support your idea that a representative federal government should not meet the needs of its people being represented? I'll wait.
 
Old 05-18-2017, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,129 posts, read 284,814 times
Reputation: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by DukerZ View Post
Sure why not. And can you answer my question directly without the imposition of quotes that you think support your idea that a representative federal government should not meet the needs of its people being represented? I'll wait.
Why would you want my opinion over that of the founders who actually formed the government? The federal government does meet its constitutional duties by providing national defense, infrastructure and other "general" services. Forced redistribution, by nature, is immoral.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/conserv...eral-govt/amp/
 
Old 05-18-2017, 07:09 AM
Status: "So, what are the libs crying about today?" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Kansas
16,797 posts, read 10,723,766 times
Reputation: 15816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariatozz View Post
A large portion of Americans seem to be against social programs even though it may be for the common good. When there is talk of the (on average) much better social programs in many European countries the general response is "well, they have to spend more on taxes". To which I ask.....so? If it meant far better health care, far better maternity leave, etc. isn't that worth it? Do not the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?
We can't afford to pay anymore taxes. Those of us that do work can't carry any more of the burden of those that want things to be "free" for them. Those that don't want to work now want the same things that other people have without working for it. Many people barely make ends meet now with both adults in the household working.
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