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I've understood from the beginning. Just because some Muslim people claim that FGM is supported by their religion doesn't make it so.
FGM is a cultural issue, there is no call for it in any Abrahamic religion.
Yes, it does make it so FOR THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE.
I agree that it's not a widespread muslim thing. I make no claims that it is.
If you want to call them "not real muslims" then so be it, *shrug*
Just like if I point out a Christian pastor killed while snake handling I guess I'd have you ranting at me about claiming all Christians handle snakes in church lol.
If a devout Catholic couple refused to let their child have a needed blood transfusion and fell back on the "but muh religion" bit to avoid prosecution, anyone who knew anything about Catholicism would go, "Huh?" The point I'm making is that people are justified in blaming religion when religion is to blame, but their not justified in blaming religion for stupid people's choices when their religions' teachings don't even support their choices.
I'm agreeing with you.
The religion in neither the OP nor in Mariah Walton's case should be blamed. The blame lies solely with those who are doing terrible things then throwing up the "but muh religion" shield and getting away with it. I'm glad that the individuals in the OP are being charged with a crime. The idea of them rotting in jail is wonderful.
I'm also musing at the push/pull in regards to religious expression and legislature. In one breath, people are championing bills/laws to further cement that the government has no business interfering with how someone practices their "closely held religious beliefs"... but in the next breath are like "but not like that".
In one breath, people were furious that a baker in Oregon was fined for breaking a law. Furious that she was denied the freedom to act accordingly to her closely held religious beliefs. In the next, people are actively supporting the courts telling two "doctors" (and the parents who consented) that their "but muh religion" defense doesn't exempt them from receiving punishment for the crimes they committed.
((For what it's worth, I agreed with the ruling in the bakery case and I will cross my fingers that those involved in this case are convicted of their crimes. One's personally held religious beliefs, whether fringe or widely practiced, should NEVER involve causing harm or detriment to any other person.))
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
That depends on what you call "faith healing." Of course, Mormons pray when someone is sick or injured, and they have faith that God has the power to heal. But never in the history of Mormonism has the Church encouraged people to deny medical help to someone in need. I'm not sure what your information on the "history of faith healing in the Mormon Church" comes from, but it's not factual; I'll tell you that.
Childhood friend of mine. Her mother ran away from a similar fringe cult of so-called Mormons after the elders refused to let her youngest sister see a doctor for a broken foot.
But, just as you pointed out that the man who is next in line to lead the Mormon church is a heart surgeon means that Mormons should not be rejecting medicine... scholars and leaders in the Islamic faith have stated that female genital mutilation is un-Islamic.... so followers of Islam should not be performing FGM.
The OP took a story of FGM for Islamic reasons, left off all mention of islam etc. and then tried to blame the whole thing on Pence.
The OP was pointing out that "religious freedom" laws, like the one Pence championed for his state, have the unintended consequence of nerfing the court system's power to prosecute in cases like this. Because if it is absolutely imperative that the government refrain from infringing on someone's "closely held religious beliefs", then that would apply to all religions and religious beliefs... not just the religions we "approve" of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan
I've understood from the beginning. Just because some Muslim people claim that FGM is supported by their religion doesn't make it so.
FGM is a cultural issue, there is no call for it in any Abrahamic religion.
THIS.
FGM is practiced regionally with even sects of Christianity and Judaism adhering to it as part of their "faith".
The OP was pointing out that "religious freedom" laws, like the one Pence championed for his state, have the unintended consequence of nerfing the court system's power to prosecute in cases like this. Because if it is absolutely imperative that the government refrain from infringing on someone's "closely held religious beliefs", then that would apply to all religions and religious beliefs... not just the religions we "approve" of.
It seems to me that you are intentionally ignoring the second part of the sentence that starts with the word "unless".
The law Pence signed, if you read the whole thing, would not allow for making FGM legal.
Yes, of course they would apply to all religions but that doesn't mean you can start committing honor killings, polygamy, marrying 8 year olds, FGM or a host of other things.
The thread is a cheap political attack insinuating that these laws would make FGM etc. legal which it won't.
You can especially tell because the OP went out of the way to avoid mentioning the religion involved.
It seems to me that you are intentionally ignoring the second part of the sentence that starts with the word "unless".
The law Pence signed, if you read the whole thing, would not allow for making FGM legal.
Yes, of course they would apply to all religions but that doesn't mean you can start committing honor killings, polygamy, marrying 8 year olds, FGM or a host of other things.
The thread is a cheap political attack insinuating that these laws would make FGM etc. legal which it won't.
You can especially tell because the OP went out of the way to avoid mentioning the religion involved.
You would be mistaken. Does the first amendment mention any particular religion?
What Pence signed further opened the door to use religion as a defense to act in a prejudiced and racist manner. That would be my point by including Pence's freedom of religion bill in this thread.
agreed, ban it along with circumcision. Your religion does not give you the right to alter someone else's body without their consent. Well... Right now it does, but it shouldn't.
You would be mistaken. Does the first amendment mention any particular religion?
What Pence signed further opened the door to use religion as a defense to act in a prejudiced and racist manner. That would be my point by including Pence's freedom of religion bill in this thread.
That door was already wide open and been used for years. It doesn't matter because there are always some practices that are never allowed no matter the religion (animal and human sacrifice, polygamy, child abuse, etc.).
But I hardly think refusing to bake a cake for a same sex wedding or not wanting to provide birth control falls into that category. If they only refuse the cake for the wedding, but still serve them for regular items, then let it go. But feel free to tell all your friends this baker won't do gay weddings and let them take the hit for it. It's idiotic for them to take themselves out of the market for that.
I do not believe that extends to someone like Kim Davis refusing as a county clerk to issue marriage licenses. She promised to uphold the law, and same sex marriage is the law. She doesn't have to perform the wedding ceremony. She just has to issue a license that is legal to obtain.
Feel that there should be religious freedom in the U.S. With that said religious freedom ceases if it does harm to a living creature or damages property
Feel that there should be religious freedom in the U.S. With that said religious freedom ceases if it does harm to a living creature or damages property
That pretty much eliminates many practices of the three major religions as described in their holy books.
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