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Sadly agree that this was a bad deal. I'm convinced AGW is real and significant but the Paris accord was largely empty in terms of its impact on warming. There was no reason for us to participate in something that was financial redistribution masquerading as an environmental solution. China and India were the telltales that this was a fraud.
I doubt we will ever get a perfect agreement, Kyoto Protocol was also rejected 16 years ago and here we are rejecting an agreement that was very light. India and China are the same issue, they are developing nations and it's difficult to get them to agree to immediate roll backs. We have been the number one source for most of the century and although we have made progress are still #2 behind China in terms of CO2 and per capita consumption. We are in no position to criticize other countries.
The good news is that the US and companies will continue down the path, with or without Trump.
I doubt we will ever get a perfect agreement, Kyoto Protocol was also rejected 16 years ago and here we are rejecting an agreement that was very light. India and China are the same issue, they are developing nations and it's difficult to get them to agree to immediate roll backs. We have been the number one source for most of the century and although we have made progress are still #2 behind China in terms of CO2 and per capita consumption. We are in no position to criticize other countries.
The good news is that the US and companies will continue down the path, with or without Trump.
Trump has no control over private corporations/companies doing whatever they want to invent,manufacture or improve any technologies that might or might not clean the environment, nor do I believe he wants to stop them.
His argument is/was against the U.S. paying out $$$$$$$$$$$$ for no real gain while other countries do NOTHING. He's all for U.S. companies inventing new stuff and making money off of it, that's capitalism.
I doubt we will ever get a perfect agreement, Kyoto Protocol was also rejected 16 years ago and here we are rejecting an agreement that was very light.
We probably won't get a perfect agreement but this one had very little upside towards reducing AGW and very real economic downside for the US to the extent that there wasn't really any reason to pursue it other than an emotional one, i.e. "it's a good start" as many have said.
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Originally Posted by Goodnight
India and China are the same issue, they are developing nations and it's difficult to get them to agree to immediate roll backs.
I don't accept China being a developing nation at all. It's an economic super power that plays the developing nation card as well as the "Yeah but you were as bad as us 100 yrs ago" guilt trip. I do business there and I've seen the air and water pollution and the way they rape their landscape. They don't do it because they have no alternative, they have done it because economic superiority is their primary goal and everything else is secondary. They have the capability to turn things around extremely fast. Remember that they are fundamentally still a communist state and when they decide to do something, nothing stands in their way. They are now starting to recognize that the damage they've done to their own populace is having an effect on productivity and that's their motivator for change. For example - Shanghai was clogged with highly polluting 2-cycle mopeds. The people's primary mode of transportation but the govt decided that in 2015 all such 2-cycle motors were to be outlawed. Boom ... they just did it. They can and will do anything they want including putting modern scrubbers on their power plant stacks. They just don't want to yet. It's a mistake for us to coddle them or cut them slack for being a developing nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
The good news is that the US and companies will continue down the path, with or without Trump.
Yes they will. And that's a good thing and Trump knows it. This is inevitably technologically and economically driven. We're heading that way for reasons that have nothing to do with globalist govt accords.
But give it a go then, give me that one single fact that invalidates the currently accepted theory of climate change.
There you go again with ignorance.
It is not up to me to prove an alternate or to prove you right. (that is logical fallacy).
It is up to you to establish your position according to the scientific method. If at ANY time your hypothesis fails a test AND it can not be shown to be an understood failure that also passes the tests (ie repeatable, reproducible exactly as it failed), then... it is invalid.
Your ignorance combined with your arrogance is your folly.
Why should I or anyone else engage in a discussion with you over the application (modelling) of a theory when you don't even understand or accept the 160 yr old physics that theory is based on? Why? How can you consider yourself worthy of being taken seriously in the least?
You on page 33 -
You on page 36 -
No not a mistype. You bungled it TWICE! Once on page 33 and again on page 36. Not only have you lied about an example of your gross scientific ignorance and passed it off as a mistype but you cut and pasted the exact same phrase. You're busted. You don't have a clue what you're posting about. You're either cutting and pasting from some denier's group talking points list ... or you're shoddily trying to educate yourself, got way in over your head and are just throwing words against the wall hoping to bamboozle people that you assume are as ignorant as you.
Modelling? what the heck is modelling? You are a denier, anti-science! I got you! I win! I Win!!! I can dismiss all your other arguments.. /phew
It s a mistype due to me hitting the key. Your argument is stupid. I hit a certain key sometimes consistently, attempting to make the argument that I meant "forgings" over forcing, is a fallacy argument. Doubling down on it is just a stupid argument and tells us who you really are, an activist promoting climate change.
Run along, I hear a tree is identifying as a human, maybe you could start a relationship?
It is not up to me to prove an alternate or to prove you right. (that is logical fallacy).
It is up to you to establish your position according to the scientific method. If at ANY time your hypothesis fails a test AND it can not be shown to be an understood failure that also passes the tests (ie repeatable, reproducible exactly as it failed), then... it is invalid.
Your ignorance combined with your arrogance is your folly.
So you can't give me a single fact that invalidates the theory? You can't just say that theory is invalidated because a single fact can make invalidate it without providing that single fact. Give me an example of the hypothesis failing a test then, you are claiming the theory is wrong so enlighten us, we're waiting.
Trump has no control over private corporations/companies doing whatever they want to invent,manufacture or improve any technologies that might or might not clean the environment, nor do I believe he wants to stop them.
Well, when companies add jobs/keep existing jobs in the U.S., he certainly takes credit for it. He's also pretty quiet when things don't go as well for U.S. companies.
Quote:
His argument is/was against the U.S. paying out $$$$$$$$$$$$ for no real gain while other countries do NOTHING. He's all for U.S. companies inventing new stuff and making money off of it, that's capitalism.
There's nothing legally binding in the Paris Agreement that said the U.S. HAD to pay. Literally every piece of it is voluntary. He can simply choose not to hold up the U.S. end of the deal if he didn't want to and there would be no punitive consequence. So opting out was a political layup for him and little else. It was the easy political move for him. It was one of the few campaign promises he could easily uphold so he did it to appease his base. As a result, the U.S. is yet again the laughingstock of the world and there's no real benefit to anyone beyond DJT who was able to reinforce his base a bit.
Nah, I like breathing too much, and I need to get some sleep now. I shall be pleasantly surprised if NxtGen does give an actual answer by the morning though.
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