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Old 06-15-2017, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
People are people first, before they are of God or Country

Within the Christian religion there are over 1,500 different faith groups and all of them believe they are the only ones going to Heaven.

The Christian religion: introduction
"There are on the order of 1,500 different Christian faith groups in North America which promote many different and conflicting beliefs. Further, many groups believe that they alone are the "true" Christian church and that all of the others are in error. "

There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, if Islam is like Christianity and I am sure that it is, then there are multiples of different faiths groups within Islam, as well.

The religion of Islam
"In any discussion of Islam, the topic of terrorism, murder, mass murder and genocide by a radical, violent wing of Islam is not far from the surface. One important item to remember is that terrorists, and their supporters, represent a small percentage of followers within the religion who follow a type of Islam that has little regard for human life. It is also important to recall that most victims of these terrorists are fellow Muslims."[my bold for emphasis]

One can not say that Islam is not a spiritual religion, because God is of the spirit. I have heard (and I believe it to be true) that if one was to read and understand the (Christian) Holy Bible in its original language, it would read the same as the Quran.

When the Constitution of the United States was being framed its framers recognized the great power the Church of England had over its citizens and the government. Knowing this they made it priority number one to stipulate, 'freedom of religion' so as to free the citizens from the church, so as they could follow their God given conscience and practice their beliefs as they believe God would have them to do.

Martin Luther was the beginning of the Protestant Religion, because he knew something the Priest was not telling him. He knew God had called him to be a monk; he knew this because he had a personal relationship with God.

Liken to Martin Luther there are Muslims who have found their personal relationship with God.

What we are looking at and have been looking at is a social evolution, where as people may be reading a book that was written over 3000 years ago, they are also recognizing something else, something that is greater than the book and greater than themselves, the movement of the Holy Spirit.

However, since it is people and people have a conscience and God perhaps works through that conscience as a guide, there is yet another science. The one that recognizes that people are born with different levels of conscience and some who are born with out one. For them there is man's laws and a jail cell waiting on 'em.

People are people first, before they are of God and country and they are very complicated beings, which means, we can not fit everyone into one labeled box and say, that's it, they are this, they are that, which means they are bad.

There is goodness in every one, some not so much as others. Which gives more reason for Christ to say in His dying breath, 'forgive them father for they know not what they do'.

There are those who do not believe in Christ in that He ever existed, but they do believe in forgiveness, imagine that.
Yes I agree with you that people are people
For man is a rational being and possesses reason
This is agreed upon
I agree with you that Christianity has different schools
I disagree with you
But all schools and sects rely on fixed texts, and in their texts there is no clear reference to terrorism, murder or interference in the ruler's policy
I also agree with you that Christianity says it is the right path
But I disagreed with you that Christianity did not offer the temptations
And also did not submit a single text on the declaration of fighting
Or killing the apostate from her faith
As for Islam, it is not a spiritual religion, it is what can be deduced from its texts
Because Islam is a policy and its most important aspect is the spread of Islam by means of fighting
I believe that this concept was not followed by those who published Christianity and did not give the world texts calling for jihad for the sake of Allah
Christianity has spread so strongly by the word no persuasion
It did not spread to the battles and invasions
But the Quran is like the Gospel
This is a religious issue
I tell you
That Muhammad did not begin his life as a prophet but was a disciple to the priest of Nesroni, his cousin was that the priest followed Nestorian doctrine
But after enjoying the power and invasions he did not call
I believe that Islam was made to stop the spread of Christianity
Can talk about the details
But I guide you to an important book called a priest and a prophet, written by Abu Musa al-Hariri
The Book of Muhammad and Christ is another book by Simon of Cyrene, which gives you the difference between the two characters in minute detail and depends on the texts transmitted from Christianity and Islam
So who puts Islam with Christianity in one basket does not have evidence of that
Christianity has had an impact in Europe
Its direct and indirect consequences were European progress and the nature and morals of Western man
Islam was influential on the peoples that embraced it and see its direct and indirect impact, which it has secured and its backwardness
And the state of infighting among Muslims as well
The first military operations were led by Aisha, Mohammed's wife in the Battle of the Camel
It is a famous battle between Aisha and Ali bin Abi Talib and ended with the raising of the Koran on the swords
These facts are historical in the books of Muslims
Was there a battle between followers of Christ for this reason?
Al-Hassan and Hussein, the descendants of Muhammad, were also killed by his daughter Fatima in Karbala
A famous incident in which the transfer of Ras Al Hassan and Hussein to the Levant by the followers of Yazid Ibn Muawiya
Do you read the history of Christian battles of this style
So there is historical evidence
And also from the texts of the Koran and this will not touch it proves that he is political and not spiritual
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Yes I agree with you that people are people
For man is a rational being and possesses reason
This is agreed upon
I agree with you that Christianity has different schools
I disagree with you
But all schools and sects rely on fixed texts, and in their texts there is no clear reference to terrorism, murder or interference in the ruler's policy
I also agree with you that Christianity says it is the right path
But I disagreed with you that Christianity did not offer the temptations
And also did not submit a single text on the declaration of fighting
Or killing the apostate from her faith
As for Islam, it is not a spiritual religion, it is what can be deduced from its texts
Because Islam is a policy and its most important aspect is the spread of Islam by means of fighting
I believe that this concept was not followed by those who published Christianity and did not give the world texts calling for jihad for the sake of Allah
Christianity has spread so strongly by the word no persuasion
It did not spread to the battles and invasions
But the Quran is like the Gospel
This is a religious issue
I tell you
That Muhammad did not begin his life as a prophet but was a disciple to the priest of Nesroni, his cousin was that the priest followed Nestorian doctrine
But after enjoying the power and invasions he did not call
I believe that Islam was made to stop the spread of Christianity
Can talk about the details
But I guide you to an important book called a priest and a prophet, written by Abu Musa al-Hariri
The Book of Muhammad and Christ is another book by Simon of Cyrene, which gives you the difference between the two characters in minute detail and depends on the texts transmitted from Christianity and Islam
So who puts Islam with Christianity in one basket does not have evidence of that
Christianity has had an impact in Europe
Its direct and indirect consequences were European progress and the nature and morals of Western man
Islam was influential on the peoples that embraced it and see its direct and indirect impact, which it has secured and its backwardness
And the state of infighting among Muslims as well
The first military operations were led by Aisha, Mohammed's wife in the Battle of the Camel
It is a famous battle between Aisha and Ali bin Abi Talib and ended with the raising of the Koran on the swords
These facts are historical in the books of Muslims
Was there a battle between followers of Christ for this reason?
Al-Hassan and Hussein, the descendants of Muhammad, were also killed by his daughter Fatima in Karbala
A famous incident in which the transfer of Ras Al Hassan and Hussein to the Levant by the followers of Yazid Ibn Muawiya
Do you read the history of Christian battles of this style
So there is historical evidence
And also from the texts of the Koran and this will not touch it proves that he is political and not spiritual
You will have me at a disadvantage where as particulars of the Holy Scripture(s) are necessary to make a case, as I haven't cracked open the Bible in many a year. Not doing so doesn't mean I do not believe in God, it just means I did not find God in the book. I found Him in my heart, in my conscience and He gives me knowledge when I need knowledge.

So I ask you what was the Walls of Jericho, written in the book of Joshua? Was that not believed to be by God's hand, the tearing down of the walls? That and Sodom and Gomorrah as in a destruction by those who believe, by God's Hands where as ancient civilizations where wiped off the face of the earth, pop for me when I think of ancient battles and wars performed by man, who believed in God. Did God not lead Abram, direct him to take up his wife Sara; leave his family and follow a path to the promise land? (and unless I miss my guess, that war is on going)

In my opinion, what we have here is a failure to recognize evolution and a belief that people are conducting themselves in a manner of ancient ways, in a belief that is over 3000 years ago and people have changed. Most have adapted and moved on, others not so much. They have a tendency to cling to something quite possibly never was, if we are to believe in man's text that were written, without a personal agenda?

God is a spiritual entity, a Father a waiting His children to ascend to Him, for all those who believe in Him through Christ, they will have a place in spiritual form, in Heaven. This is not all those who are Muslim, or all those who are Christian, or all those who are black or all those who are white, or all those who are Asian, (etc.) as God does not make those distinctions only man does that.

God is the Alpha and the Omega; He created this earth; He will take it right back out. The first go around a recording of the destruction of earth is the flood and what I remember was recorded after that was God said, the next time, the earth will be destroyed by fire and there will be no coming back. And if we believe that to be God's word, then we know we are not to set things up on earth, by war or any other means, because it does not go with us when we ascend to the Heavens.

In the Bible it is written thou shalt not kill. It is man that says, you can kill, you just can murder. What is that? I will tell you what that is, that is man's justifying some thing, that there is not justification for in the eyes of God.

So the terrorist will terrorize hoping that their efforts may yield to them to be the last peoples on this earth, only to wake up and realize it was all for nothing as this earth ages out and dies away ... in the meantime ...

We know people no matter what their culture, their race, their beliefs, we know them by their fruit and we do not turn them away through prejudice, we are to cast away our prejudice and we bring them in from the cold, to live and love among us. That is what Jesus Christ, the greatest humanitarian to walk the face of this earth, would want us to do.

But alas, we can not do that, why? Why must we persecute one another?

God isn't doing this, man is ... and when we stop it, then and only then will we have become enlightened people of God.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

We know people no matter what their culture, their race, their beliefs, we know them by their fruit and we do not turn them away through prejudice, we are to cast away our prejudice and we bring them in from the cold, to live and love among us. That is what Jesus Christ, the greatest humanitarian to walk the face of this earth, would want us to do.

But alas, we can not do that, why? Why must we persecute one another?

God isn't doing this, man is ... and when we stop it, then and only then will we have become enlightened people of God.

That is all good and well. But if Europeans of the Middle Ages had actually followed the teachings of Jesus, there would BE NO CHRISTIANITY in Europe. At most, it would be a tiny presence. Maybe as numerous as the Jews.

The Christians of Europe fought BACK against invading Muslim armies who invaded, conquered and enslaved Christendom. This is expressly against the teachings of Christ. The Popes waged Holy War for self-preservation, which is against the approach advanced by Christ. Had they not. Had they embraced wave after wave of invasion and cowered because they feared being "prejudiced," then the Caliphate would extend clear into Britain, and the Vatican would be home to one of the largest mosques in the world.


In other words, Christ's philosophy is a good way to organize one's PERSONAL life. Not a nation. Not a continent. And Certainly not a civilization.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:44 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 655,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
That is all good and well. But if Europeans of the Middle Ages had actually followed the teachings of Jesus, there would BE NO CHRISTIANITY in Europe. At most, it would be a tiny presence. Maybe as numerous as the Jews.

The Christians of Europe fought BACK against invading Muslim armies who invaded, conquered and enslaved Christendom. This is expressly against the teachings of Christ. The Popes waged Holy War for self-preservation, which is against the approach advanced by Christ. Had they not. Had they embraced wave after wave of invasion and cowered because they feared being "prejudiced," then the Caliphate would extend clear into Britain, and the Vatican would be home to one of the largest mosques in the world.


In other words, Christ's philosophy is a good way to organize one's PERSONAL life. Not a nation. Not a continent. And Certainly not a civilization.
Thank you for this talk and analysis
Yes, if Europe were to follow the Word of Christ in all its details, Mecca would turn to London
But us in the Gospel are our guide
When he said
Give what is Caesar to Caesar and what is to God to God
This is what the Europeans understood and walked on
To give to God worship
It is a personal relationship between God and man
The Christian says to God my Father
But in matters of the movement of society and evil, he gave the delegation to Caesar
He is the ruler who takes good interest
He defends believers
And faced with evil
This is great for Europeans who have managed to keep their society free from evil
But evil today moved to Europe and under the cover of Christian tolerance
This is the one to be alerted to
Today Europe needs to go back
And address the mistakes of politicians
And tell people that the teachings of Jesus are good but not enough to protect you from evil
You must cooperate with us in the fight against evil
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Old 06-17-2017, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Finland
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The whole world ought to move past religion, not more towards any one particular religion. Terrorism will still go on of course because its political but without the religion façade it'll be easier for people to face up to the causes of terrorism and thus combat them more efficiently.
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Old 06-17-2017, 10:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natsku View Post
The whole world ought to move past religion, not more towards any one particular religion. Terrorism will still go on of course because its political but without the religion façade it'll be easier for people to face up to the causes of terrorism and thus combat them more efficiently.
Yes, that's right
But can you separate Islam from politics?
I think you can not because the religious is mixed with the political inextricably
The best way is to conduct a revision of the Qur'an in the West so that all signs of hatred and fighting are abolished
I believe that only the stories of the prophets and the words of the people of Israel will remain from the Koran, and I believe that the Islamic world will be able to send love packages to the people of Israel.
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Old 06-18-2017, 12:17 PM
 
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Default It always comes down to taxes ... always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell

We know people no matter what their culture, their race, their beliefs, we know them by their fruit and we do not turn them away through prejudice, we are to cast away our prejudice and we bring them in from the cold, to live and love among us. That is what Jesus Christ, the greatest humanitarian to walk the face of this earth, would want us to do.

But alas, we can not do that, why? Why must we persecute one another?

God isn't doing this, man is ... and when we stop it, then and only then will we have become enlightened people of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
That is all good and well. But if Europeans of the Middle Ages had actually followed the teachings of Jesus, there would BE NO CHRISTIANITY in Europe. At most, it would be a tiny presence. Maybe as numerous as the Jews.

The Christians of Europe fought BACK against invading Muslim armies who invaded, conquered and enslaved Christendom. This is expressly against the teachings of Christ. The Popes waged Holy War for self-preservation, which is against the approach advanced by Christ. Had they not. Had they embraced wave after wave of invasion and cowered because they feared being "prejudiced," then the Caliphate would extend clear into Britain, and the Vatican would be home to one of the largest mosques in the world.

In other words, Christ's philosophy is a good way to organize one's PERSONAL life. Not a nation. Not a continent. And Certainly not a civilization.
Maybe so ... however, there is this power of the church.

The Roman Catholic Church, (before the Protestant faith split) of Christianity held the power to levy taxes on its citizens. If I'm not mistaken The Church of England also held the power to levy taxes in Britain. Not to mention the litigation of laws, (canon law) that the government and the people were to follow, to not do so was considered blasphemy. So yes, I can see the Popes of past civilizations waging a Holy War, so as to preserve the Church, but what exactly were they preserving?

What did Christ do? He overturned the money changing tables in the Church as He was angered, by what? The collection of government taxes within the Church walls, where only spiritual things are to happen. (the people hung an innocent man, between two criminals as if He Himself was a criminal, what were they thinking to have done that?)

Now bring in Islam to the mix, what did Mohammad do? (this is where I am not read and am at a loss) Nothing remotely similar to Christ that I can make a testament. The power to govern people is to reside in the Mosque (church) and its Imams. And one topic some people fail to mention (15 years ago only one person said it) the 12th Imam and foretelling of the coming, through war he will arrive. (so as some believe)

Perhaps this is a miss use of a pronoun but, if I wanted to rule a world and retain for myself all its power all its riches, what would I create? I would create confusion among the people, so they would never see it coming.

Christ's philosophy is not only a good way to organize one's personal way of life, but also a way for all nations to come together, to share their resources and put an end to civilizations woes. But in a fallen world, it can not be done.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 06-18-2017 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Maybe so ... however, there is this power of the church.

The Roman Catholic Church, (before the Protestant faith split) of Christianity held the power to levy taxes on its citizens. If I'm not mistaken The Church of England also held the power to levy taxes in Britain. Not to mention the litigation of laws, (canon law) that the government and the people were to follow, to not do so was considered blasphemy. So yes, I can see the Popes of past civilizations waging a Holy War, so as to preserve the Church, but what exactly were they preserving?

What did Christ do? He overturned the money changing tables in the Church as He was angered, by what? The collection of government taxes within the Church walls, where only spiritual things are to happen. (the people hung an innocent man, between two criminals as if He Himself was a criminal, what were they thinking to have done that?)

Now bring in Islam to the mix, what did Mohammad do? (this is where I am not read and am at a loss) Nothing remotely similar to Christ that I can make a testament. The power to govern people is to reside in the Mosque (church) and its Imams. And one topic some people fail to mention (15 years ago only one person said it) the 12th Imam and foretelling of the coming, through war he will arrive. (so as some believe)

Perhaps this is a miss use of a pronoun but, if I wanted to rule a world and retain for myself all its power all its riches, what would I create? I would create confusion among the people, so they would never see it coming.

Christ's philosophy is not only a good way to organize one's personal way of life, but also a way for all nations to come together, to share their resources and put an end to civilizations woes. But in a fallen world, it can not be done.
I do not agree with you in this
Because I am from the Eastern Church
He considered that one of the reasons for the collapse of the Eastern Church in general and the collapse of historical cultural nationalities
Is fully Christian philosophy
Because it was the reason for leaving the arms and resistance to evil
When Christianity spread in Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Europe
The dominant nationalities were Chaldean, Assyrian, Syriac, Coptic, Pharaonic and Aramaic

And Hebrew
But because of the Christian faith, they left the peace and did not have any authority
The power was Germanic and Persian
Then came the Arab Muslim colonists, who worked to destroy these nationalities and languages and gradually erase them and end them from existence

In contrast, we see the European model of Christianity, which was able to withstand the philosophy of the secret coming from the Arabian Peninsula led by Muhammad and his followers Muslims
They managed to stop them in Spain
They also tried to eradicate the ideology of evil in its infancy during the Crusades
But the Eastern Christians made a lot of mistakes when they stood with Muslim invaders
After the end of the Crusades the Muslims returned to the policy of killing and cancellation against the components of the East Civilizational
The Arabs wore the clothes of those civilizations and the fact that the Arabs and Muslims were the descendants of criminals and murderers and evil
Today, Europe has moved away from Christianity
They may fall into fatal mistakes if they take the culture of the invaders
I mean the invaders in ideology
That is why I am sending these words to Europe to benefit from the lesson of Christianity in the East
If the Europeans want to overthrow Christianity from their civilization, they should not overthrow their civilizations, their entity and their nationalities
I believe that Christ taught me tolerance and love
But he also said to me, You have to stand in the face of evil and fight him
This lesson was not understood by Eastern Christians
But Western Christians have known it in the past but have forgotten it in the present
And may return to their roots and fight Islamic evil again
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I do not agree with you in this
Because I am from the Eastern Church
He considered that one of the reasons for the collapse of the Eastern Church in general and the collapse of historical cultural nationalities
Is fully Christian philosophy
Because it was the reason for leaving the arms and resistance to evil
When Christianity spread in Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Europe
The dominant nationalities were Chaldean, Assyrian, Syriac, Coptic, Pharaonic and Aramaic

And Hebrew
But because of the Christian faith, they left the peace and did not have any authority
The power was Germanic and Persian
Then came the Arab Muslim colonists, who worked to destroy these nationalities and languages and gradually erase them and end them from existence

In contrast, we see the European model of Christianity, which was able to withstand the philosophy of the secret coming from the Arabian Peninsula led by Muhammad and his followers Muslims
They managed to stop them in Spain
They also tried to eradicate the ideology of evil in its infancy during the Crusades
But the Eastern Christians made a lot of mistakes when they stood with Muslim invaders
After the end of the Crusades the Muslims returned to the policy of killing and cancellation against the components of the East Civilizational
The Arabs wore the clothes of those civilizations and the fact that the Arabs and Muslims were the descendants of criminals and murderers and evil
Today, Europe has moved away from Christianity
They may fall into fatal mistakes if they take the culture of the invaders
I mean the invaders in ideology
That is why I am sending these words to Europe to benefit from the lesson of Christianity in the East
If the Europeans want to overthrow Christianity from their civilization, they should not overthrow their civilizations, their entity and their nationalities
I believe that Christ taught me tolerance and love
But he also said to me, You have to stand in the face of evil and fight him
This lesson was not understood by Eastern Christians
But Western Christians have known it in the past but have forgotten it in the present
And may return to their roots and fight Islamic evil again
Quote:
I do not agree with you in this
Because I am from the Eastern Church
I am not sure which part you are not in agreement. I was raised a fundamental Baptist. In some circles to disclose this it would be considered taboo, to say the least. (I understand the greater significance) However, for me it means nothing. If some one was to ask me, are you a Christian? I would have to ask them to describe the word Christian to me, before I could answer that question. God broke the mold when He made me.

The power of the ancient Roman Catholic church (Medieval times, militarily) in that it had over the government of its citizens, is a fact that is in evidence along with the power of The Church of England in Britain. Because of that power is in whole the reason those who established the government of the U.S. made it a point to ensure the people in the U.S. would be free to establish their own religious values, that which was in their heart to do as the first amendment insures us. (established freedoms through law)

Some history as I began to look things up so as to state things better:

http://bibleresources.americanbible....the-roman-rule

In the article of Britannica I see no difference in the rule of the ancient eastern church.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/canon-law#ref216918

God In America: People: The Roman Catholic Church in Medieval Europe | PBS

As in all things by design, evolution happens. Thus you are witnessing the change in Christianity and the changes in Islam. Come out of Medieval times; fast forward to modern times ...

Some in the faith of Islam wish to retain the ancient text, govern from the ancient text; withstand all things modern including man himself. Others in the faith of Islam, wish to become more modern in their ideology and govern themselves as God would have them to do. Which one of them are we to judge, evil?

"If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me they will persecute you... for they do not know the One who sent Me." John 15:19-21

"...the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me." John 16:2-3
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Old 08-19-2017, 06:55 PM
 
Location: US
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The parade to celebrate Muslims after the attack hasn't stopped radical Muslims from hating Europe!
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