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During conversations here I realized that a lot of folks do not understand something. Impeachment does not require a actual crime with associated penalty.
Impeachment requires "High crimes and misdemeanors". And looking at it you think, hey misdemeanors are crimes! And you are right. but...what EXACTLY are high crimes? Most people assume its all about felonies, or the big ones like treason, etc. But when written "high crimes and misdemeanors" had a much different understanding. Its a "term of art" like other phrases such as "due process", and "levying war". The supreme court has ruled that things like this need to be interpreted as the understanding at the time they were written.
Benjamin Franklin supported impeachment as
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"favorable to the executive"; where it was not available and the chief magistrate had "rendered himself obnoxious," recourse was had to assassination. The Constitution should provide for the "regular punishment of the Executive when his misconduct should deserve it, and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused
Reading through documentation of the times on the topic, its quite clear that impeachment could be for entirely subjective reasons. Violations of public trusts for example.
James Madison successfully argued that an election every four years did not provide enough of a check on a president who was incapacitated or abusing the power of the office. He contended that
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“loss of capacity, or corruption . . . might be fatal to the republic” if the president could not be removed until the next election.
some wanted maladministration during the discussion of the constitution, but most felt that would open up too much "he disagreed with me, s lets impeach" basically. The convention in the end adopted "high crimes and misdemeanors" as it was a commonly used term as the English parliament used it. Officials accused of it had done mavy varied things-some which were crimes, and many which were not.
...those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself. The prosecution of them, for this reason, will seldom fail to agitate the passions of the whole community, and to divide it into parties more or less friendly or inimical to the accused.
So the argument that it requires a criminal offense.....doesn't hold water in my opinion.
During conversations here I realized that a lot of folks do not understand something. Impeachment does not require a actual crime with associated penalty.
During conversations here I realized that a lot of folks do not understand something. Impeachment does not require a actual crime with associated penalty.
Impeachment requires "High crimes and misdemeanors". And looking at it you think, hey misdemeanors are crimes! And you are right. but...what EXACTLY are high crimes? Most people assume its all about felonies, or the big ones like treason, etc. But when written "high crimes and misdemeanors" had a much different understanding. Its a "term of art" like other phrases such as "due process", and "levying war". The supreme court has ruled that things like this need to be interpreted as the understanding at the time they were written.
Benjamin Franklin supported impeachment as Reading through documentation of the times on the topic, its quite clear that impeachment could be for entirely subjective reasons. Violations of public trusts for example.
James Madison successfully argued that an election every four years did not provide enough of a check on a president who was incapacitated or abusing the power of the office. He contended that some wanted maladministration during the discussion of the constitution, but most felt that would open up too much "he disagreed with me, s lets impeach" basically. The convention in the end adopted "high crimes and misdemeanors" as it was a commonly used term as the English parliament used it. Officials accused of it had done mavy varied things-some which were crimes, and many which were not.
Hamilton defined it this way in Federalist No. 65: The Avalon Project : Federalist No 65
So the argument that it requires a criminal offense.....doesn't hold water in my opinion.
That would be a problem, if Democrats held the house and the senate. Why didn't they impeach Bush, when they had the chance?
Heres a tip.
1. Thats not the topic on if he will or will not be impeached.
2. The only people who appear to bring Clinton becoming president because of it so far have been people like you.
3. No. Im here to discuss interesting things.
That would be a problem, if Democrats held the house and the senate.
Maybe. I assure you that the house and senate Republicans are watching the ever expanding gap in votes during the recent special elections with a lot of nervousness. And watching Trumps irrational behavior.
Again though, not the topic.
Weird...no one wants to discuss the topic yet. Wonder why?
That would be a problem, if Democrats held the house and the senate. Why didn't they impeach Bush, when they had the chance?
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Originally Posted by greywar
Maybe. I assure you that the house and senate Republicans are watching the ever expanding gap in votes during the recent special elections with a lot of nervousness. And watching Trumps irrational behavior.
Again though, not the topic.
Weird...no one wants to discuss the topic yet. Wonder why?
Very much on topic. It is just not what you were selectively phishing for.
Truth hurts, doesn't it.
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