U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-12-2017, 11:27 AM
 
270 posts, read 147,125 times
Reputation: 140

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Funny how America has the most privatized health care system in the developed world and by far the most expensive. The government systems in place in every other rich country in the world run far more efficiently than the American system. Odd, right?
So why did ObamaCare make our system worse? Why did doctors, hospitals and health care companies become more scarce?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-12-2017, 11:29 AM
 
3,988 posts, read 1,665,547 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by BougNeg1 View Post
So why did ObamaCare make our system worse? Why did doctors, hospitals and health care companies become more scarce?
perhaps b/c your gov was putting party over people and didn't take medicaid expansion? in states that took it ACA is doing quite well.....
and to people who had pre-existing conditions or who hit lifetime caps, or who couldn't find employment b/c Baby-boomers never saved enough to retire, it's been pretty successful.

Last edited by Metsfan53; 06-12-2017 at 12:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 11:39 AM
 
9,198 posts, read 4,238,914 times
Reputation: 10990
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartGotts View Post
We aren't going to solve today's problems by yearning for the good old days.
Personally, I'd vote for a birth control component tied to any welfare benefits but that's too progressive for some right to life voters.
I always wonder who is footing the healthcare bill for the anti single payer crowd? Will these same people turn down socialist Medicare or Medicaid? Will they refuse social security?
I'd be all for removing mandatory SS, medicare, etc.
I can do much better with the money I earn than a promise from the government that it knows better than I. That might even be ok if the government could be trusted. However it has been shown that the federal government is a bloated, incompetent and dishonest broker when it comes to it citizens taxes.
Heck, even Al Gore was droning on about putting the money "in a lock box", which was his way of indicting those who take from Paul to pay Peter. Even if you have X amount of responsible trustworthy people in a particular Congress or executive branch, their time is fleeting. Then you can have others treat the federal systems like a ponzi scheme.

Heck, what the hell do you think means testing is?
Despite the government promising that your money taken every week will be there for you when you retire or need it medically, now they want to say if you have become successful, it's promise to you is now null and void.
If people like Gates, Buffet, Zuckenberg, etc. want to voluntarily not collect SS or use Medicare fine. But if a billionaire wants to hold the government to it's original promise, they should be able to .
The federal governments incompetence should not be an excuse for breaking a promise that taxpayers were coerced into accepting.

BTW - Far too often, we want to think of new ways to solve problems. Yet if you look back at how this nation became so great, the past is what should be the blueprint when it comes to personal responsibility. We should have a big heart in taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves (i.e. physically disabled), but allowing able bodied people to essentially be parasites on the hard working taxpayers is not the solution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 11:42 AM
 
3,988 posts, read 1,665,547 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I'd be all for removing mandatory SS, medicare, etc.
I can do much better with the money I earn than a promise from the government that it knows better than I. That might even be ok if the government could be trusted. However it has been shown that the federal government is a bloated, incompetent and dishonest broker when it comes to it citizens taxes.
Heck, even Al Gore was droning on about putting the money "in a lock box", which was his way of indicting those who take from Paul to pay Peter. Even if you have X amount of responsible trustworthy people in a particular Congress or executive branch, their time is fleeting. Then you can have others treat the federal systems like a ponzi scheme.

Heck, what the hell do you think means testing is?
Despite the government promising that your money taken every week will be there for you when you retire or need it medically, now they want to say if you have become successful, it's promise to you is now null and void.
If people like Gates, Buffet, Zuckenberg, etc. want to voluntarily not collect SS or use Medicare fine. But if a billionaire wants to hold the government to it's original promise, they should be able to .
The federal governments incompetence should not be an excuse for breaking a promise that taxpayers were coerced into accepting.

BTW - Far too often, we want to think of new ways to solve problems. Yet if you look back at how this nation became so great, the past is what should be the blueprint when it comes to personal responsibility. We should have a big heart in taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves (i.e. physically disabled), but allowing able bodied people to essentially be parasites on the hard working taxpayers is not the solution.
Great- let's start with WV where 10% of the population is on SSDI. Let's also go after the miners who won't learn new jobs who only want to wait for their job to come back (hint- it's not). Or is this only dog-whistling for black people? Honest question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 11:47 AM
 
270 posts, read 147,125 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metsfan53 View Post
perhaps b/c your gov was putting party of people and didn't take medicaid expansion? in states that took it ACA is doing quite well.....
and to people who had pre-existing conditions or who hit lifetime caps, or who couldn't find employment b/c Baby-boomers never saved enough to retire, it's been pretty successful.

But weren't we told that Obamacare would solve the affordability problem without putting tens of thousands of people on Medicaid???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:09 PM
 
864 posts, read 898,628 times
Reputation: 1740
The changes would require a military dictatorship at this point.

Do we REALLY need a dentist to fill a cavity?
Do we REALLY need an optometrist to do an eye test?

Many of the jobs done by doctors could be done by trained technicians.

Until someone tells the AMA lobbyists to take a hike, and take the pharmacy lobbyists with them, we are in this unsustainable, for profit spiral.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:12 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 3,250,392 times
Reputation: 7251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I'd be all for removing mandatory SS, medicare, etc.
I can do much better with the money I earn than a promise from the government that it knows better than I. That might even be ok if the government could be trusted. However it has been shown that the federal government is a bloated, incompetent and dishonest broker when it comes to it citizens taxes.
Heck, even Al Gore was droning on about putting the money "in a lock box", which was his way of indicting those who take from Paul to pay Peter. Even if you have X amount of responsible trustworthy people in a particular Congress or executive branch, their time is fleeting. Then you can have others treat the federal systems like a ponzi scheme.

Heck, what the hell do you think means testing is?
Despite the government promising that your money taken every week will be there for you when you retire or need it medically, now they want to say if you have become successful, it's promise to you is now null and void.
If people like Gates, Buffet, Zuckenberg, etc. want to voluntarily not collect SS or use Medicare fine. But if a billionaire wants to hold the government to it's original promise, they should be able to .
The federal governments incompetence should not be an excuse for breaking a promise that taxpayers were coerced into accepting.

BTW - Far too often, we want to think of new ways to solve problems. Yet if you look back at how this nation became so great, the past is what should be the blueprint when it comes to personal responsibility. We should have a big heart in taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves (i.e. physically disabled), but allowing able bodied people to essentially be parasites on the hard working taxpayers is not the solution.
you could NOT be more wrong.

You think you could do better, but the fact is time and time again we find too large a number FAIL.

They plan, they do it, but LUCK gets in the way and they come looking for a handout. Should you be left to starve because your retirement plan fails? Should the hospital wheel you out the door the day your money runs out?
And what about if you get hit by a bus and your plans FAIL , should your wife be thrown out?

the simple truth is life is risky , people make errors, luck goes the other way, thus we insist that YOU are covered to ensure EVERYONE is.

Oh and BTW i call BS on how this nation became great. We became great due to the bread basket, timing of industrialization and some lucky wars that pushed us to the top of the pile.

It has little to do with some secret sauce and a lot to do with massive resources and our political policy of welcoming the adventurous and the willing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:19 PM
 
18,543 posts, read 9,541,594 times
Reputation: 5184
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartGotts View Post
Prior to gay marriage being the law of the land there were just a handful of states where it was legal.
Being from Massachusetts it was old news. The sky didn't fall and no one forced it upon our children.


Single payer healthcare is really the best thing for the American public. We all know what we have now isn't sustainable.
More and more companies are NOT offering an affordable insurance option. So, ALL taxpayers are footing the bill for $10/hour walmart workers having babies and local hospitals.


Eventually some state in the union will come up with a plan... the rest will follow and, just like gay marriage, we'll wonder what took so long.
You just prove to us that it's a terrible idea to have government controlling our life.

Why did it take so long? One word: government.

If marriage is not a government mandated status but rather an agreement with consenting adults, gay marriage would have existed along with non-gay marriage from the beginning.

No, you didn't want that. You wanted the government to "license" marriage and then you had to fight the government to license gay marriage.

Stupidity at its finest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,228 posts, read 13,977,359 times
Reputation: 6467
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartGotts View Post
Prior to gay marriage being the law of the land there were just a handful of states where it was legal.
Being from Massachusetts it was old news. The sky didn't fall and no one forced it upon our children.


Single payer healthcare is really the best thing for the American public. We all know what we have now isn't sustainable.
More and more companies are NOT offering an affordable insurance option. So, ALL taxpayers are footing the bill for $10/hour walmart workers having babies and local hospitals.


Eventually some state in the union will come up with a plan... the rest will follow and, just like gay marriage, we'll wonder what took so long.
Vermont and California figured out that single payer is NOT affordable
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2017, 12:33 PM
 
9,902 posts, read 3,250,392 times
Reputation: 7251
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
You just prove to us that it's a terrible idea to have government controlling our life.

Why did it take so long? One word: government.

If marriage is not a government mandated status but rather an agreement with consenting adults, gay marriage would have existed along with non-gay marriage from the beginning.

No, you didn't want that. You wanted the government to "license" marriage and then you had to fight the government to license gay marriage.

Stupidity at its finest.
nice try mate, but you are wrong.

The gov refusing to license one group or another is completely independent of the value of that license. Why you are trying to conflate the two things is beyond me.

Maybe you thought it sounded clever or something, but the premise is flawed. Government regulation of marriage is primarily due to the scale of society and the multicultural nature of modern nations. It is required to protect the rights of the individuals that CHOOSE to avail of it. It is a public formalization of a private agreement. NOBODY makes anybody get married, it is a choice. But if you wish to make the choice the state provides a framework to ensure no one party is abused or cheated.

Withholding that right for a select group was decided to be unfair and the fact that people fought to gain access to legal marriage suggests they believe it has worth.

In short mate NOPE. People LIKE gov, they like laws, they like rules that stop abuses, that protect them and theirs and that protects them from others.

remember NOBODY makes you get married, you dont have too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top