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Old 06-12-2017, 10:33 AM
 
12,638 posts, read 8,952,231 times
Reputation: 7458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
False. Stop telling lies.
Everyone agrees there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of "collusion" between Trump and the Russians. So you need to stop lying.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:37 AM
 
13,898 posts, read 6,442,664 times
Reputation: 6960
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveToRow View Post
Everyone agrees there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of "collusion" between Trump and the Russians. So you need to stop lying.
They can't stop lying about this. They won't get a paycheck if they do.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,357,274 times
Reputation: 23853
A Special Prosecutor is a difficult person to fire. If Trump manages to fire Mueller, it won't stop the proceedings; Congress will just appoint another special prosecutor, and the second will be immune from firing once appointed.

When Nixon wanted his Attorney General Elliott Richardson to fire SP Cox, after Cox said he would subpeona Nixon, Richardson resigned rather than face the censure that would follow.
So Nixon had to find another AG suddenly. He chose Deputy Attorney General Ruckelshaus, demanded he fire Cox, and Ruckelshaus also resigned. Wm. Ruckelshaus held the job about 48 hours before he quit.

So then Nixon appointed Robert Bork to the office, and Bork did fire Cox, but lost a seat on the Supreme Court later on as a consequence, after taking a terrible beating in the confirmation hearings that left him with a ruined reputation.

And the firing of Archibald Cox made Congress and the public so mad that Cox's replacement, Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworski, immune to the possibility of being fired. Jaworski was freed to lead the investigation into places where Cox never tried to uncover.

Nixon lost a lawyer who was favorable to him when he fired Cox, and got a lawyer who was hostile toward him as a result. Once Cox was fired, Nixon suddenly started looking guilty to all his former voters and supporters.

And remember Nixon won 1972 in a landslide. If he had left Cox alone, his popularity could have made a Cox investigation come to nothing much.

Trump did not win by such a landslide. He's on much shakier ground right now than Richard Nixon was.

There have been other special prosecutors who followed Watergate. None of them ever faced being fired as a result of Nixon's folly.

The lesson is: No President messes with Congress like that and gets away with it.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,840 posts, read 4,803,834 times
Reputation: 6479
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Nailed it. That the Russian investigation started started before the election is widely known and often pointed out on this very forum.

Newt Gingrich could not run an honest investigation if his soul depended on it.
Newt has a soul? I figured he split it into 7 and made horcruxes.
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Old 06-12-2017, 11:04 AM
 
711 posts, read 932,959 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
President Trump can fire Mueller no question about it. If Mueller gets to far off the rails he should fire him too.
If Mueller does his job which is to go after anyone who commits a crime he uncovers during his investigation then he has to go after Comey and AG Lynch. If he doesn't, the fix is in and President Trump should fire him without regard to what the republicans in congress think, or anyone else for that matter.
What crime did Comey and the AG commit?
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,197 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
A Special Prosecutor is a difficult person to fire. If Trump manages to fire Mueller, it won't stop the proceedings; Congress will just appoint another special prosecutor, and the second will be immune from firing once appointed.

When Nixon wanted his Attorney General Elliott Richardson to fire SP Cox, after Cox said he would subpeona Nixon, Richardson resigned rather than face the censure that would follow.
So Nixon had to find another AG suddenly. He chose Deputy Attorney General Ruckelshaus, demanded he fire Cox, and Ruckelshaus also resigned. Wm. Ruckelshaus held the job about 48 hours before he quit.

So then Nixon appointed Robert Bork to the office, and Bork did fire Cox, but lost a seat on the Supreme Court later on as a consequence, after taking a terrible beating in the confirmation hearings that left him with a ruined reputation.

And the firing of Archibald Cox made Congress and the public so mad that Cox's replacement, Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworski, immune to the possibility of being fired. Jaworski was freed to lead the investigation into places where Cox never tried to uncover.

Nixon lost a lawyer who was favorable to him when he fired Cox, and got a lawyer who was hostile toward him as a result. Once Cox was fired, Nixon suddenly started looking guilty to all his former voters and supporters.

And remember Nixon won 1972 in a landslide. If he had left Cox alone, his popularity could have made a Cox investigation come to nothing much.

Trump did not win by such a landslide. He's on much shakier ground right now than Richard Nixon was.

There have been other special prosecutors who followed Watergate. None of them ever faced being fired as a result of Nixon's folly.

The lesson is: No President messes with Congress like that and gets away with it.
Wasn't Mueller appointed under the current statute? What power would Congress have to appoint a prosecutor different from the current law?

The power of appointment currently rests with the DOJ. Clearly Trump could do what Nixon did. Eventually he could find someone to get rid of the prosecutor.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,519 posts, read 2,821,423 times
Reputation: 1863
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Wasn't Mueller appointed under the current statute? What power would Congress have to appoint a prosecutor different from the current law?

The power of appointment currently rests with the DOJ. Clearly Trump could do what Nixon did. Eventually he could find someone to get rid of the prosecutor.
The point is that firing Cox cost Nixon 2 AGs that quit rather than do something inappropriate and made it worse for Nixon as it appeared at the time he did not want certain information to come to light.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,531,346 times
Reputation: 24780
Talking Hold it right there...


Not so fast...

To convert your false statement to a true statement, an additional clause must be inserted:

Everyone agrees there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of "collusion" between Trump and the Russians that has been released to the public so far.

There! Now it makes sense.

Stay tuned for further developments.

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Old 06-12-2017, 01:22 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,365,659 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Mueller also has experts from the financial crimes division to 'follow the money.' That may be Trump's biggest problem (or Jared's), and Trump cannot claim the money trail is a lie--the guy won't even release tax returns, which will probably be subpoenaed anyhow at some point.

Trump has played fast and loose with the law and shady characters regarding his financial and business dealings, against the advice of his accountants and attorneys. This may come back to bite him in the butt.
Sadly I have repped you too recently, because this may be the thing that is causing the recent freakout. Mueller hired some people who specialize in this, and as I have said before, this is the sort of thing almost every big businessperson has committed some sort of crime in. Even unintentional, but far more common intentionally.

But why have some Republicans gotten worried looks lately? Why are they freaking out over Trumps problem?

Simply put because Muellers mandate allows him to really dig deep into wherever this leads him, and that could include some of them. I expect some Democrats to freak out as well eventually.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,844,197 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
The point is that firing Cox cost Nixon 2 AGs that quit rather than do something inappropriate and made it worse for Nixon as it appeared at the time he did not want certain information to come to light.
OK, but assuming Trump wants to have Mueller fired then we are in the same situation as with Nixon and there is nothing that Congress can do about it short of beginning impeachment hearings.
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