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Old 06-17-2017, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,733,362 times
Reputation: 4160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The DNC says they do NOT support single payer.
Yes, that's what they say. Semantics my friend.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:46 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
A freer marketplace does exactly what you want, no predetermined profit. You are arguing in circles. If you cannot connect too much sugar, fat and a lack of exercise to poor health, then truly I cannot see that you have much basis for argument. If as I suspect that you are in poor health, whether by chance, genetics or poor choice then just admit it. At least then we'll know why the focus on health insurance and guarantees of health care.
I never said that and on top of that, you know I never said that. The idea that we should only see that people are treated when it is profitable has to end.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:47 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
Yes, that's what they say. Semantics my friend.
No, it's what their actions have shown also. When it comes to a single payer candidate and a for profit candidate, they back the for profit candidate every time.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,733,362 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No, it's what their actions have shown also. When it comes to a single payer candidate and a for profit candidate, they back the for profit candidate every time.
Then I guess we'll just have to wait and see won't we?
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:54 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
Then I guess we'll just have to wait and see won't we?
We don't have to wait and see, we've already seen it.
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Old 06-17-2017, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,894,142 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunD1987 View Post
As long as the bill provides:
More funding to mental health and substance abuse services.
Adopt some Libertarian policies of not mandating businesses yo provide health insurance.
Does not regulate government insurance...services someone can't have and services they can have such as birth control and abortion.
Look at the possibility of creating an open health market to drive competition and lower insurance cost in the private sector.
Look at the possibility of universal health care for seniors and those actively serving in the military. As well as universal mental health and substance abuse care. Paid by taxes on marijuanna and fines from decriminalizes victimless crimes.
Possibility of replacing Medicaid with cost adjustable health insurance based off State's average cost of living for household.
Expand option of those who can create health savings accounts and offer them to the public.
Does away with patents on medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.
Deregulate the FDA allow less red tape with medication allowed in the U.S. Leave decision to consumers.
Possibility of universal health treatment for cancer services.
The problem is some of these will end up hurting consumers. The AHCA is basically looking to bring us back to pre-ACA health insurance where they can dump you for pre-existing conditions and that is exactly what we don't need. This is why there is so much outrage at Republican town hall meetings.

The open market place really don't work. I live in Arizona, as it stands with Obamacare, many areas have one if any insurers. That means it can become a localized monopoly in rural areas because of lack of customer-base. Yes, Obamacare has a lot more regulations, BUT insurers will only serve areas if they can be profitable. Obamacare or "free market insurance." This is an issue I can only see fix with UHI.

I wish Medicaid would be based around the cost of living in the specific state. Sadly I realize this is a pipe-dream. This is because of state funding. Arizona complained that the Medicaid expansion would be too much to cover. This ties into one of your good suggestions: decriminalizing, legalization and taxation of marijuana. Sadly like I mentioned Arizona held itself to conservative beliefs and denied a prop legalizing marijuana for a school tax. Doubt they'd be able to get it to pass to expand Medicaid to a localized cost of living.

Health Savings Accounts only work in two options. One, you have employer matching. Two, you are rich. The lower middle class and working class are entirely hurt through HSA proposals.

Patents on pharmaceuticals are kind of a paradox. They insure that we improve medicine as we discover new disease. At the same time they hurt us in serveral ways:
  • High prices
  • Rush to market (tests, approval, etc.)
Without patents we'd be subject to a LOT of bad drug lawsuits and by default higher prices but we already have those even with patents.

Deregulating the FDA just creates more and more bad drug lawsuits like patents would.
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Old 06-17-2017, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,894,142 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
There is no filibuster possible because they are passing this as a reconciliation bill. If they can get 50 Republican votes, they will be able to pass it.
I'm not so sure. The Byrd rule distinguishes for reconciliation to being for budget reasons. That said, with the 52 votes Republicans do have in the Senate, this vote would possibly mean political suicide. Just look at how Republicans including Senators have taken (or not) their lumps on town hall meetings based on the repeal of Obamacare. Voters are angry and if this bill passes, they will be angrier. I'm already not voting Flake in the AZ Senatorial election of 2018 for falling in-line with Trump and the Republicans as well as only doing on town hall in over four years. Talk about a flake.
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Old 06-17-2017, 01:56 PM
 
244 posts, read 180,962 times
Reputation: 488
Alas, private insurance based system cannot be made to work for the society as a whole. Folks over 50 are not insurable based on free market principals and neither are the chronically ill of which there are a lot. Insurance only works when service provided is rare and is only needed in exceptional circumstances (think auto insurance). Insuring health only works on the healthy and young.

Obamacare came from good intentions but ultimately relies on private insurance so neither it nor its touched up clones that's been floated around by both parties, is going to produce satisfactory results.

In longer term, the sooner it is gutted in favor of social darwinism espoused by the GOP the more push there will be for Single Payer, aka Medicare for all. Causing short term pain, the repeal will set the conditions for a powerful movement to do away with Aetnas and Blue Shields of our country completely.

Looking at the world, we can see that it is only Government-financed healthcare that works well. There is truly not a single developed country in the world that doesn't do Universal coverage. Well, there is the US and it is dead last as far as life expectancy and other health indicators go. It will continue to drop lower until finally there is a revolutionary change.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,733,362 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
We don't have to wait and see, we've already seen it.
No bro you're not getting it. We'll need to wait until 2021. Doesn't matter what they've said in the past or recently for that matter. They've been given a directive. Just gotta wait till the time is right. Try to see the big picture. Look at everything as a whole. In many ways it's fortunate that most people just can't seem to grasp that concept.
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Old 06-17-2017, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,733,362 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by candalf View Post
Alas, private insurance based system cannot be made to work for the society as a whole. Folks over 50 are not insurable based on free market principals and neither are the chronically ill of which there are a lot. Insurance only works when service provided is rare and is only needed in exceptional circumstances (think auto insurance). Insuring health only works on the healthy and young.

Obamacare came from good intentions but ultimately relies on private insurance so neither it nor its touched up clones that's been floated around by both parties, is going to produce satisfactory results.

In longer term, the sooner it is gutted in favor of social darwinism espoused by the GOP the more push there will be for Single Payer, aka Medicare for all. Causing short term pain, the repeal will set the conditions for a powerful movement to do away with Aetnas and Blue Shields of our country completely.

Looking at the world, we can see that it is only Government-financed healthcare that works well. There is truly not a single developed country in the world that doesn't do Universal coverage. Well, there is the US and it is dead last as far as life expectancy and other health indicators go. It will continue to drop lower until finally there is a revolutionary change.

Pknopp,

Read the above post. Like I said, try to see the big picture.
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