$10k per person for healthcare a good deal?

[Mr. Mon]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

The one thing I think you can count on-is that liberals will propose NO means of paying for a $10,000 per person cost. So how does that get recouped? Sales tax? California already is the hightest taxed state in the nation-at $10,408 per capita. So, you're looking at doubling that approximately? So, where does that come from? You'd have to increase sales tax to a massive amount, upwards of 50% most likely (sales tax revenue is currently 22% of all tax revenue and is taxed at 9% IIRC. You'd increase the tax rate by a factor of 5+ just to cover this increase alone. Should be fun paying taxes on your new car, let alone your groceries.

You do realize that any taxes to pay for a national system would include the taxes that you already pay for Medicaid and Medicare. Not to mention your out of pocket expenses and deductibles. Americans are already paying for a public multi-payer system, they just aren't able to use it.

[irspow]

Originally Posted by Metsfan53

besides the fact that the bolder part makes 0 sense, just want to be clear government coercion is bad but coercion from similar tradesmen is ok? got it.

You do realize that whatever evil nature you ascribe to people applies to government, as government is a fictional entity comprised of those same evil people. The difference is government has a fictional right to use violence and aggression upon you and the tradesmen does not have that right. I'll choose interacting with a peaceful rational human being every time over dealing with an aggressive irrational institution of violence every single time. I KNOW that human beings are for the most part peaceful and rational. Just as I KNOW that government is ALWAYS violent and irrational. I understand that the collectivist indoctrination must be based upon assuming that most human beings are evil and unable to run their own lives. The funny part is that these same collectivists think that this institution of aggression, government, comprised of these same evil and stupid humans is something that they want lording over their every aspect of life.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mon

You do realize that any taxes to pay for a national system would include the taxes that you already pay for Medicaid and Medicare.

Not necessarily. Medicaid would be defunded and that money directed elsewhere in the economy.

Originally Posted by Boss

Would single payer drop cost by say 50%? Reducing the amount needed for HI. How would that effect the individual business owner and individual market? Say a 10 Million life time cap.

I don't really understand your questions.

Would single payer drop cost by say 50%?

At least 33% of the costs of healthcare are payments to insurance companies by both the employer and employee, and those costs would be eliminated, so that instead of cost $9,990 per person annually, it would only cost $6,660 per person annually.

25% of the cost of hospitalization is medical administration, for which you pay $667 per person per year. A single-payer system should put downward-pressure on medical administration costs to about 12%, which would be about $333 per person per year.

How would that effect the individual business owner and individual market? Say a 10 Million life time cap.

Unlike Social Security, the HI Payroll Tax has no cap. Increasing the HI Payroll Tax from 2.9% to 26% would not create a cap. It would generate $2.2 TRILLION annually, which should be enough to cover costs. Medicare Part B, Part C and Part D, plus Medicaid and CHIPS would be defunded, which should create a closely balanced budget, or result in a substantial decrease in federal taxes. The SMIs (Supplemental Medical Insurance Trust Funds) would be rolled into the Federal Hospitalization Trust Fund (the Medicare Trust Fund), making it solvent.

[irspow]

Originally Posted by Mircea

[/i]Unlike Social Security, the HI Payroll Tax has no cap. Increasing the HI Payroll Tax from 2.9% to 26%

Oh my God! Do you really believe that everyone should spend over a quarter of their lives being slaves to the medical industry? No, don't answer that...I know....the Divine Fictional Collective and all...Just start digging the mass graves already.

Because the next "right" to a product or service is going to require 100% slavery to get back some rations...

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by irspow

Oh my God! Do you really believe that everyone should spend over a quarter of their lives being slaves to the medical industry? No, don't answer that...I know....the Divine Fictional Collective and all...Just start digging the mass graves already.

Because the next "right" to a product or service is going to require 100% slavery to get back some rations...

There's no slavery here. We're simply talking about paying the cost of medical care without paying the cost of health insurance. It's a win-win.

[irspow]

Originally Posted by Mircea

There's no slavery here. We're simply talking about paying the cost of medical care without paying the cost of health insurance. It's a win-win.

Since we are tyrants who can impose anything we'd like upon individuals for the sake of the collective. Wouldn't it be easier to just ban health insurance then? At least then, you'd only be a tyrant towards insurance companies instead of the whole of the population.

It would certainly drive down costs beyond all you would save from paying the middle-man. I mean a doctor COULD try charging what they do now, but then they would have virtually no customers Medicine would be FORCED indirectly to adjust their fees to something that the people could afford, otherwise they'd be out of business completely. You can't get blood from a stone.