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Old 06-28-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,357,274 times
Reputation: 23853

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
I'd rather go with a European style democracy where you have the same party in charge of the executive branch as the legislative branch.


This back and forth "resist Trump", Republican vs Democrat, and the mindless sheeple that follow one party or the other, and won't compromise on anything.....isn't working.
I seriously doubt the nation will ever allow our Constitution to be striken and a Parliament will replace it.

As long as all sides see our problems in a win-lose way, where one side must lose for the other to win, there will be no change.

We don't need to see it this way, and there were earlier times when we did not. When we decide we are all in this together, winning or losing together, then things may start to change.

The great impossibility of our republic is thinking that one side can win all, if there is just enough agreement. There will never be enough agreement for that to happen.

If we begin to think about getting what we need more than what we want, that some sacrifice is always needed for the common good of all, then we can begin reaching compromised solutions.

Our constitution is entirely based on the principle of compromise. When the desire to reach a solution is so pressing as to become a national priority, it is only through compromise that we all get what we need, and none of us will get all that we want. But we will all get some of what we want.

And some is always better than nothing.
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Old 06-28-2017, 08:46 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Both parties and their supporters are all authoritarian thugs and tyrants who have no problem using government aggression and thugs to impose their personal will upon their neighbors. We are a nation of psychopaths, thugs, and tyrants based only upon using government guns, violence, and the threat thereof upon our neighbors to get what we want. A barbaric form of "society" with absolutely no moral foundation whatsoever. "Might makes right". "The ends justify the means." Disgusting. We all gleefully use the thug government to steal from, abuse, enslave, and destroy the natural freedoms of others. It is sad. The only reason that the nation was formed was to secure and protect the whole of natural freedoms for every individual. Yet all we have become is a nation that destroys individual freedom and that resorts to violence and aggression for every "solution". And all "solutions" are imposed by some upon others with aggression.
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Old 06-28-2017, 08:57 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
You hit the heart of the problem. Big money !!! But how to get it out is no simple matter.
I hear this type of thing often. And it really is a simple thing. Simpler than everyone makes it out to be, almost too simple.

Why is there money in politics? To influence legislation. But what benefit is there in influencing legislation? Because you can buy government aggression to benefit yourself.

So the solution is simple, though we would have to change our philosophy of what the proper, just, and moral role of government is. Take away the government's fictional right to use aggression upon the individual.

If government did not have a "right" to use aggression upon the individual, there would be nothing to purchase from legislation. It is only legislation that benefits some at the expense of others that is worth buying. And only aggression benefits some at the expense of others.

So if we had a moral and just government, it would be limited to being only a retaliatory force against aggressors. Then there would be nothing to buy or gain by crafting or influencing legislation, because that legislation or laws would only be retaliatory against aggressors and would not benefit any person or group at the expense of others.

But the fact of the matter is Americans love being thugs and tyrants towards their neighbors. The reason that there is money in politics is because people like to use government as their personal thug to do their dirty work for them. What the regular guy is mad at is not that there is money in politics to buy selective aggression, he is really just mad because he is not the highest bidder for evil law to impose his personal will upon others through force.

So money will not get out of politics, until the average Joe is willing to give up his use of a thug government abusing others on his behalf. You get the monster you want.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:01 PM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,008,400 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
The entire system sucks!!!!
No the people we elect suck.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
10,454 posts, read 4,036,859 times
Reputation: 8469
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
The entire system sucks!!!!
I concur.

It seems both parties are taking more money out of my pockets, while I get less liberties in return. The fact that I can go to jail for feeding a homeless person, can't grow my own food or collect rain water without the government's permission, or get punished with higher taxes and no compensation because I want to be a responsible adult, has me pretty peeved at the entire system.

I mean, the fact we have more non violent offenders (those caught with drugs) will do more time than someone who molests and rapes kid, should tell us that there is something seriously wrong with this country.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:16 PM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,771,287 times
Reputation: 7020
It's funny seeing conservatives complain about big money in politics, seeing as you want a conservative Supreme Court, and conservatives gave us Citizens United, which has absolutely destroyed our political system.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:16 PM
 
3,329 posts, read 1,961,914 times
Reputation: 3352
The entirety of the American political system and government beauracracy is completely corrupt. It's just a emotional blackmail game to justify taxes and regulations.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:19 PM
 
32,068 posts, read 15,055,077 times
Reputation: 13684
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
The entire system sucks!!!!
I absolutely agree. The problem is there is way too much money put into politics. All these billions could go to a better cause for our country. This is why a third party can't make it. They don't have the funding of the rich.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:23 PM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,646,770 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
I hear this type of thing often. And it really is a simple thing. Simpler than everyone makes it out to be, almost too simple.

Why is there money in politics? To influence legislation. But what benefit is there in influencing legislation? Because you can buy government aggression to benefit yourself.

So the solution is simple, though we would have to change our philosophy of what the proper, just, and moral role of government is. Take away the government's fictional right to use aggression upon the individual.

If government did not have a "right" to use aggression upon the individual, there would be nothing to purchase from legislation. It is only legislation that benefits some at the expense of others that is worth buying. And only aggression benefits some at the expense of others.

So if we had a moral and just government, it would be limited to being only a retaliatory force against aggressors. Then there would be nothing to buy or gain by crafting or influencing legislation, because that legislation or laws would only be retaliatory against aggressors and would not benefit any person or group at the expense of others.

But the fact of the matter is Americans love being thugs and tyrants towards their neighbors. The reason that there is money in politics is because people like to use government as their personal thug to do their dirty work for them. What the regular guy is mad at is not that there is money in politics to buy selective aggression, he is really just mad because he is not the highest bidder for evil law to impose his personal will upon others through force.

So money will not get out of politics, until the average Joe is willing to give up his use of a thug government abusing others on his behalf. You get the monster you want.
Out of curiosity lets say your model works as you say and average Joe does as you suggest.

How are disputes between the average Joe's settled ?

Also, how would criminals be dealt with so the Joe's can get on with daily life and positive pursuits ?
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:56 AM
 
1,137 posts, read 1,345,238 times
Reputation: 2488
I used to like the idea of a 3rd party until I saw what happened with Ross Perot.
Instead of a viable option it turns into bleeding votes from one party, it just splits the vote.
The two party system is broke primarily due to hard line partisan politics. When that is fixed a third party will work.

Ross Perot is why I became an independent.
Any of these ideas of his sound good right now??

Give the president a line-item veto on the budget.
Get rid of all PACs
Turn over excess campaign funds to US Treasury
Vote on weekends instead of Tuesdays
Term Limits linked to Congressional performance
Pass the Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution.
Eliminate foreign lobbyists. Curtail domestic lobbyists.
Change federal election laws to eliminate the influence of the special interests.
Shorten the time for political campaigns.

Source: Not For Sale at Any Price, by Ross Perot, p.145-52 , Jul 2, 1993
United We Stand America: create government from the people
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