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View Poll Results: Should transgendered individuals be able to serve in United States of America's military?
Yes 101 52.33%
No 92 47.67%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,738 posts, read 5,419,217 times
Reputation: 8301

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, not exactly. You won't convince a Marine that he's "the same" as an airman.
Except you would.....if he's Marine air. All Marines, be it ground, be it air, are the same for they all start out the same.

Quote:

You won't convince a submariner that he's "the same" as an aviator.


Military troops are not "the same." They simply don't recognize civilian divisions.
.........
Well, you can, if you do it right. A Viet Nam War infantry general got TAC air and infantry working more closely together. How?

He had them share the same bars.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,949 posts, read 19,911,663 times
Reputation: 12832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
This might be the first time I've ever agreed with Trump.

As someone who has first hand experience of the military medical system as an Army wife for years, I don't think that the military or VA healthcare systems are the right environment for something as complex as gender transitioning. I just don't. And I am not sure that a soldier who was willing to get it done on their own dime outside of it, would remain in a state of "readiness" through the process...I really doubt it. I'd say either they wait until they're out, or they get medically discharged. Doesn't have to be dishonorable, at all. Some people just are not a right match for the military.

This doesn't have to be some big social condemnation of transfolk. I have many trans friends and I love 'em to death...but I've been close to the military too, and the two things don't seem very compatible to me.

Freedom and entitlement are two different things. Sometimes a person has to make choices, cannot have the cake and eat it, too. The military should be seen as an employer, people are not entitled to keep a job, if they're doing something that makes them not very suitable for the job. I don't see this position as being anti-trans, or hostile to the LGBTQ+ community in the slightest.
bravo!
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,634 posts, read 10,538,818 times
Reputation: 19765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think I'll blame Trump, who made the decision. It looks like he asked few generals who he knew would agree.
Uhm, you could choose any General you run into, they would agree with this decision. There were quite a few low-key, hushed celebrations at the pentagon today. The only branch that wasn't experiencing hyperventilation moments in meetings trying to figure out how they could remotely make Ash Carter's directive work was the Air Force, and they weren't thrilled. For the military this really and truly is about military readiness.
.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,088 posts, read 13,408,316 times
Reputation: 5756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
No it isn't. Just like you can't join if you're obese or too old. Is that discrimination also?
Yes, but at least that makes some logical sense, as the military requires certain physical stamina. There is no logical reason that trans people are unable to serve, and indeed already do.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:43 AM
 
26,152 posts, read 18,850,877 times
Reputation: 14022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidgetsmidget View Post
I would say all these concerns should be directed to those that are trans in the Military. Shane Ortega would be a good place to start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Ortega

I have been to a lecture of his (was in my venue) and it was very interesting.

Ortega has served three hostile fire combat tours, two in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, "Two as a Marine and one in the Army. Two as a woman and one as a man."[2] Ortega states, "My commitment to serving this country runs deep, I have been a team and squad leader, a Flight engineer, and a machine gun section chief."[3] Though in all three tours, he was considered female by the Department of Defense and the Army.

Ortega had executed over 400 combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, "and fought side-by-side in foxholes and remote operating bases."[1] Ortega quoted "I will continue to fight this fight for the 700,000 transgender veterans that have gone before me who were forced to choose between serving their country and being true to who they are."[4] Ortega notes that in a combat zone it made little difference of his gender identity as he was expected to carry his own equipment and do his job- lives counted on it.
"700,000 transgender veterans" ?

i find that number highly suspect.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:43 AM
 
19,758 posts, read 11,010,506 times
Reputation: 19746
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Except you would.....if he's Marine air. All Marines, be it ground, be it air, are the same for they all start out the same.

You're talking about Marines. An "airman" is in the Air Force. Marine aviators are still "Marines."

Quote:
Well, you can, if you do it right. A Viet Nam War infantry general got TAC air and infantry working more closely together. How?

He had them share the same bars.
I'm not talking about operating jointly. I'm talking about being "the same."
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:45 AM
 
19,758 posts, read 11,010,506 times
Reputation: 19746
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
"700,000 transgender veterans" ?

i find that number highly suspect.
I guess that's a supposition of all the persons who have served in the American military since 1776.


I doubt there is any valid basis to that supposition.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,949 posts, read 19,911,663 times
Reputation: 12832
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
"700,000 transgender veterans" ?

i find that number highly suspect.
I just did a quick google search

An estimated 1.4 million people – around 0.6 percent of U.S. adults — identify as transgender,

It looks like 700,000 of them have served in the military according to that poster. LOL
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:45 AM
 
9,627 posts, read 3,099,758 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Yes, but at least that makes some logical sense, as the military requires certain physical stamina. There is no logical reason that trans people are unable to serve, and indeed already do.
trans people are causing monetary and other issues with the army


for fricks sake, they are people who claim they can change from man to woman and back. This is not surprising
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:45 AM
 
Location: SoCal
12,927 posts, read 6,162,867 times
Reputation: 9462
I think this is to appease to his base.
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