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View Poll Results: Should transgendered individuals be able to serve in United States of America's military?
Yes 101 52.33%
No 92 47.67%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,828 posts, read 5,491,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
They're a fellow soldier. Anything else is really irrelevant. As long as they are fulfilling their duty, I see no reason why there should be any concern with this specific thing.

Obviously, people (such as yourself) disagree.

Then again, though, there is evidence that it is not an issue. We have active duty members, or people who have served, who are transgender (feel free to read the OP). Other nations have allowed transgender people to serve in their military (e.g. Israel, as mentioned earlier in this thread), and they have found no evidence that it is an issue.
All right, if we are talking about the superior "fulfilling their duty"....are they fulfilling their duty by being able to lead their troops, do their troops believe in them? When things are cold and miserable, will they believe what their leader tells them, do what they are told to do, or will they want to give up, go home ANYWHERE to a comfortable bed? Will they continue to fight or will a surrender seem like a better option to them? What motivates them to go on?

The troops need to believe in their leaders. Their leaders need to be able to motivate them to do what has to be done. Will an 18-19 year old follow if their leader seems confused (from their viewpoint) about what they are?

Leave the other nations out of it. This is the US, this is our politics, this is our society. It is not another country, it is here, it is now, and the US goes where other countries don't. This is not "that country".
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:03 PM
 
10,930 posts, read 5,044,870 times
Reputation: 4890
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
All right, if we are talking about the superior "fulfilling their duty"....are they fulfilling their duty by being able to lead their troops, do their troops believe in them? When things are cold and miserable, will they believe what their leader tells them, do what they are told to do, or will they want to give up, go home ANYWHERE to a comfortable bed? Will they continue to fight or will a surrender seem like a better option to them? What motivates them to go on?

The troops need to believe in their leaders. Their leaders need to be able to motivate them to do what has to be done. Will an 18-19 year old follow if their leader seems confused (from their viewpoint) about what they are?

Leave the other nations out of it. This is the US, this is our politics, this is our society. It is not another country, it is here, it is now, and the US goes where other countries don't. This is not "that country".
If they are a good leader, then their fellow soldiers will believe in them. This is completely merit-based, like it is for any other soldier. It is really that simple - all soldiers are placed under the same pressures, and their performance is measured in the same way. If they are a bad leader, they wouldn't even be in this purely hypothetical situation you mention above (for good reason).

I see no reason why a transgender person can't do that. In fact, they have (see op).

You say leave other nations out of it (ok - like we're really THAT different...we're not), but we have evidence of transgender soldiers serving in our nation's military (see OP, and the recent months where soldiers were allowed to serve openly).


It's obvious you disagree, and that is perfectly fine - but I'm not convinced by your argument.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,336 posts, read 20,124,483 times
Reputation: 13023
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMac18 View Post
If they are a good leader, then their fellow soldiers will believe in them. This is completely merit-based, like it is for any other soldier. It is really that simple - all soldiers are placed under the same pressures, and their performance is measured in the same way. If they are a bad leader, they wouldn't even be in this purely hypothetical situation you mention above (for good reason).

I see no reason why a transgender person can't do that. In fact, they have (see op).

.
I certainly cannot speak for ALL military folks; but here is an interesting cartoon

Terminal Lance "Offended II" - Terminal Lance Terminal Lance

here is another one

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VaQPlT0e8...sition_web.jpg
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,065 posts, read 952,522 times
Reputation: 1451
Our military is not an entitlement program . People are denied entry and get discharged often, for many reasons.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:16 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 941,467 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by skins_fan82 View Post
The opinion of this 34 year veteran outweighs the opinions of just about everybody in America. Mine included.
I'll have to agree. I do think he'd know best.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,065 posts, read 952,522 times
Reputation: 1451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
What is discrimination? It is choosing based on criteria. It is OK to discriminate. In the case of keeping confused dysphoric people out of combat, it is the correct and rational choice. Discrimination can be very good in many cases. It has become a pejorative due to misuse. Rational discrimination should be encouraged and protected. In fact, it is a complement to describe some as "discriminating". He was a very discriminating buyer. Meaning: A careful and thoughtful and rational person giving consideration and judgment to what he is buying. We've gone overboard on the discrimination thing. We need to bring some of it back.


Which is exactly what Trump just did. And there is not another politician alive who would just come out and say the obvious truth. He is an idiot in many ways, but sometimes he isn't. But at least he's got the spheres to say what needs to be said, even in the face of SJW fire and brimstone.


And THAT is precisely why he won the election.
Agreed.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,065 posts, read 952,522 times
Reputation: 1451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
You don't get why it's a problem, you'll never get why it's a problem. You can not seem to grasp that the military is not like the civilian world and can not be like the civilian world. You don't understand the military mentality, you can't because it is totally alien to your way of thinking. Military members think in terms of responsibilities and sacrifice, you think in terms of rights.
Many who havent served have trouble grasping that concept.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,100 posts, read 13,614,329 times
Reputation: 22152
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
didn't I answer that question already?
I said, two wrongs don't make one right. Both need to go
No tax payers should be forced to pay for somebody's viagra. that is ridiculous.
You didn't simply say that taxpayers shouldn't pay for either one, this is what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I never said they should be fired. If they don't need to take meds on regular basis, they can stay. Once they decided to make that transition while serving in the military, they are no longer compatible with military service, they should be processed out.
So...should soldiers be kicked out of military service if they take erectile dysfunction drugs on a regular basis too?
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,336 posts, read 20,124,483 times
Reputation: 13023
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post



So...should soldiers be kicked out of military service if they take erectile dysfunction drugs on a regular basis too?
If they need viagra in order to function in the military. Yes, they should be kicked out.

Do you know anybody who need viagra on regular basis in order to be combat ready? lol I'd give them some Copenhagen® Smokeless Tobacco instead. =)

For your information, a medical retirement is issued when a medical condition is severe enough to interfere with the proper performance of your military duties. If said soldier needs to take viagra on regular basis in order to perform military duties, Yes, he should be processed out.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:22 PM
 
6,387 posts, read 5,432,615 times
Reputation: 11015
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
All right, if we are talking about the superior "fulfilling their duty"....are they fulfilling their duty by being able to lead their troops, do their troops believe in them? When things are cold and miserable, will they believe what their leader tells them, do what they are told to do, or will they want to give up, go home ANYWHERE to a comfortable bed? Will they continue to fight or will a surrender seem like a better option to them? What motivates them to go on?

The troops need to believe in their leaders. Their leaders need to be able to motivate them to do what has to be done. Will an 18-19 year old follow if their leader seems confused (from their viewpoint) about what they are?

Leave the other nations out of it. This is the US, this is our politics, this is our society. It is not another country, it is here, it is now, and the US goes where other countries don't. This is not "that country".
If someone who happened to be transgendered and served for 34 years.....I guess "they" did follow and this is a non issue?
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