U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should transgendered individuals be able to serve in United States of America's military?
Yes 101 52.33%
No 92 47.67%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,255 posts, read 20,093,139 times
Reputation: 12991

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
What percentage of the military budget that the bold represent?
]
Doesn't matter.

A waste is a waste.

Tax payers should not pay for somebody's viagra; tax payer should not pay for somebody's sex change operation. If you have no problems with paying for their sex change operations, then you should help them paying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,255 posts, read 20,093,139 times
Reputation: 12991
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post

What I am is disgusted that there are so many people who feel that they have a right to condemn any person who is willing to serve their country in such a capacity.
]

Fake outrage.



No one is saying they are not capable of serving. I am saying if they expect the military to pay for their sex change procedure, then they should be processed OUT!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12804
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
There are between 1,320 and 6,630 transgender troops in the active-duty force of 1.3 million, according the RAND Corp. which conducted a study for the Pentagon on the issue. Of those troops, RAND estimates that between 30 and 140 would like to seek hormone treatment, and 25 to 130 would seek surgery. The estimated annual price tag: $2.4 million to $8.4 million, per year.

Treatment is estimated to cost as much as $50,000 per soldier.
Treatment generally moves from counseling to hormone therapy, and in relatively rare cases, gender reassignment surgery. A military doctor must deem the treatment medically necessary.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gery/90331678/

If there's no way to ensure the individual can continue their mission and/or survive in worst case "what if" scenarios that aren't far-fetched, there's no reason for them to remain in the military. There's nothing discriminatory about it either. Many people have been medically forced out for conditions that came up while already serving too - and for the same reason (medical readiness).

No need to make it political would be my thoughts.
Except that 45's ban doesn't look at it on a case-by-case basis, does it?
It's absolutely is wholesale discrimination, no different than deciding that people of a certain gender, ethnic or racial background couldn't serve.

As was noted by someone yesterday: "First they came for the transgenders..."


And:

AMA says 'no logical reason' for Trump's ban on transgender people in military | TheHill
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12804
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Keep them away from the military is just common sense stuff. Not sure why this is "political." some people argue for the sake of arguing.
Are you in favor of immediately discharging any/all transgender service people today?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:43 AM
 
9,764 posts, read 3,164,230 times
Reputation: 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
Except that 45's ban doesn't look at it on a case-by-case basis, does it?
It's absolutely is wholesale discrimination, no different than deciding that people of a certain gender, ethnic or racial background couldn't serve.

As was noted by someone yesterday: "First they came for the transgenders..."


And:

AMA says 'no logical reason' for Trump's ban on transgender people in military | TheHill



who is "coming for the transgenders"?


the people with gender dysphoria are being treated no different than anyone else with mental illnesses in the military by this new order
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
The military is there to defend the country, period. People must meet the standards. Personal career choices take a back seat to national defense.
If these people are serving they have met the standards.
We have an all volunteer military.
If people didn't make a personal career choice to join the military, we would have no military unless the draft was reinstated.

That anyone would spit on any American willing to serve, is absolutely disgusting and yes, un-American.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,255 posts, read 20,093,139 times
Reputation: 12991
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
If these people are serving they have met the standards.
We have an all volunteer military.
If people didn't make a personal career choice to join the military, we would have no military unless the draft was reinstated.

That anyone would spit on any American willing to serve, is absolutely disgusting and yes, un-American.
My friend has been processed out because he was diagnosed with RA (Rheumatoid Arthritis) He can draw service-related disability benefit and enjoy his time in the civilian world. It is not the end of the world for him. He is no longer suitable being a Marine.

I do not agree with a blanket ban on transgender in military, but they should not be seeking sex change operation or hormone treatment while serving in the military. My two major concerns: medical readiness + cost

You should not demonize people who disagree with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12804
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
I too am a bit conflicted on this. And the title of this thread is a bit misleading. This wasn't Trumps decision but his military leaders. That being said, I don't think this is a witch hunt against transgender people that caused this decision, I think it is more along the lines of the logistics of it. Is the military now supposed to provide separate showers, bunks, bathrooms, etc ? What happens on a Submarine, Ship etc. ? The ramifications could be costly and close to impossible.


On the other hand, we could go the way of Starship Troopers. Once you are in the military , you are a soldier , not female, not male, not gay , not transgender. You all shower together, dress together , bunk together etc.


But of course, this is all in Trumps big plan because he is racist and hates the LGTB community
Nope, it was his decision:

Pentagon caught off guard by Trump's transgender ban | Charlotte Observer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12804
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachie123 View Post
are there so many transgender people trying to join the military that he needed to tweet this?
Probably not, but they apparently are in the way of his getting his way with regard to the border wall, so they had to be punished.

"The House on Thursday defeated a proposal that would have prevented the Pentagon from funding gender reassignment surgeries for service members.

The amendment failed in a 209-214 vote, with 24 Republicans voting against it."

House defeats bid to block Pentagon funding transgender surgeries - CNNPolitics.com


"A congressional fight over sex reassignment surgery threatened funding for his border wall."

Inside Trump’s snap decision to ban transgender troops - POLITICO
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,185 posts, read 15,018,492 times
Reputation: 18249
I voted "no" as a military veteran and the mother of a career military son.

Let me post again the many conditions that don't allow an individual the "privilege" of enlisting in the military:

Medical Conditions That May Prevent You From Joining the Military | Military.com

Mental Health: https://www.thebalance.com/military-...ission-3354046

The military have standards that have to be met. No particular group should have the necessary standards waived "just because".

In the case of transgenders, it is both mental and physical, a double whammy! Gender Dysphoria: What It Is and How It's Treated

The implication seems to be that even though they would enter as not being deployable, someone else can just take their place. When a couple is in the military and both end up taking the place of a transgendered not deployable, that couple both risk their lives and most often have children at home. They must give guardianship to someone in case they are deployed. You either are up for the task and meet able to meet the possible obligations or not. To allow one group to stay behind while having someone else take their place, no, just no!

Male and female are biological and cannot be exchanged by adding or taking away. They are what they are. I do not "feel" like a woman, I am biologically a woman. "Feelings" have nothing to do with it. I could imagine that I knew what it felt like to be a tree, but I will never be a tree, not if I put leaves in my hair and wrap my body in bark.

We can pander to one group like that and just write off the standards that protect the mission.

Talking about people over 50 having health issues? Not many in the military at 50 and/or post menopausal. I think many know very little about the military, of course, that makes it easier when one has a total ignorance of what they are talking about.

I saw one female work so hard to lose weight, and she had others helping but couldn't do it and was sent home. I saw another fall apart in basic that emotionally couldn't get it together sent home. My cousin was rejected for extremely poor eyesight and was devastated. Another cousin was rejected because flat feet. I tested with a guy that desperately wanted to join but couldn't get his test scores up, finally in his 3rd try he made it just barely.

Joining the military is a privilege with entry standards that have to be met and standards that have to be maintained while in the military, it is not a "right". I can't believe that these days so many think they have a "right" to whatever they might desire.

Last edited by AnywhereElse; 07-27-2017 at 09:13 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top