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View Poll Results: Should transgendered individuals be able to serve in United States of America's military?
Yes 101 52.33%
No 92 47.67%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2017, 09:58 AM
 
Location: *
8,035 posts, read 2,372,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Why would anyone want to stop someone from volunteering to take a bullet for our country?
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I already said I agreed with you about Trump.
Alright.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:11 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,098 posts, read 34,502,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332
Sure... but being gay is not the same as being a transgender person. Aren't most gay people content to remain the same sex as the one they were born as?

Otherwise, I support Trump's quick decision to ban more transgenders from joining the military. It's like Obama suddenly announcing the end to the Cuban refugee wet foot/dry foot policy. It prevents a wave of transgenders rushing to enlist into the military before that loophole could close. The loophole that is being joining our military and our government footing the bill for their sex change operations.

And Trump is the commander-in-chief.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,891 posts, read 4,185,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332



Alright.

Transgender are not gays, they are transgender. I have no problem with gays serving in the military, as long as they meet the readiness required to serve. I have no problem with transgenders serving in the military as long as they do not require the taxpayer to pick up their sexual reassignment operation. Once you enter the military, you will serve as the gender you put down and not change your mind in the middle of your enlistment period. If you want the sexual reassignment operation then pay for it yourself and all the other needed meds that come along with it.

The military has the right to ban anyone from serving, serving in the military is not a right, it is a privilege.
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,938 posts, read 19,900,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Sure... but being gay is not the same as being a transgender person. Aren't most gay people content to remain the same sex as the one they were born as?

Otherwise, I support Trump's quick decision to ban more transgenders from joining the military. It's like Obama suddenly announcing the end to the Cuban refugee wet foot/dry foot policy. It prevents a wave of transgenders rushing to enlist into the military before that loophole could close. The loophole that is being joining our military and our government footing the bill for their sex change operations.

And Trump is the commander-in-chief.
Good point. Never thought of that .
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,938 posts, read 19,900,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332
The key words for me are "openly serving".

Gays and lesbians can openly serve as homosexuals in the military. That means that If you are married (as a gay man or a lesbian woman) and living with your spouse or minor dependents, you will either live in on-base housing or be given a monetary allowance called BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) to live off-base. The amount of BAH depends on your rank, your location, and whether or not you have dependents. (I have no problems with any of these by the way.)

If you allow transgender folks to openly serve as transgenders in the military, that means the military is responsible for their treatments and/or possible surgery. That also means if they decided to go through that "transition" while serving in the military, military cannot automatically say no.

So it is not as simple as you (the general term) think it is.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: USA
19,627 posts, read 14,584,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Considering TGs have been serving this country since its inception, I think we have studied the impact for long enough.
Name all of these thousands of Transgender people you know that have been serving since the inception of the US? Last thing we need are SJWs proclaiming you know what is best for the military.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:38 AM
 
4,178 posts, read 2,468,355 times
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No. They have mental issues, and even though they go to counseling prior to joining, its still an issue.
Second, the reason they join is for the surgery too. Thats billions of dollars of waste. Its the military, not a factory to convert you to another gender your mentally ill status cant agree with.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: *
8,035 posts, read 2,372,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332 ...
The above post/response was made in reply to Feldesigner's post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Why would anyone want to stop someone from volunteering to take a bullet for our country?
To clarify: My response was in essential agreement with Feltdesigner's. I was & am not claiming gays folks are the exactly same as ... every other person, by definition or in any other way (on the contrary it is my belief there is much variability among most groupings by whatever criteria used as similarities) ~ however all groupings or individuals are virtually the same by the fact that they are human beings, & exposed to the same very human conditions as are all of us. Any one of us may want to, or may not want to, serve their Country.

Another clarification: The fact that Mr. Goldwater made the metaphorical (pun) statement by using the then common meaning of the word 'straight' as being a heterosexual, meant (to me) one's sexual orientations wasn't a suitable reason for determining a person's fitness or suitability for military service to one's Country.

As an aside, personally, while likely necessary when considering 'the big picture' the Don't ask, don't tell" policy (DADT) was pretty lame as policies go, although as noted, likely necessary in the long run or term:

..."DADT was the official United States policy on military service by gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, instituted by the Clinton Administration on February 28, 1994, when Department of Defense Directive 1304.26 issued on December 21, 1993, took effect,[1] lasting until September 20, 2011. The policy prohibited military personnel from discriminating against or harassing closeted homosexual or bisexual service members or applicants, while barring openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons from military service. ..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%...,_don%27t_tell
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,512 posts, read 16,396,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Don't they still have guidelines about mental illness? Surely someone with gender dysphoria needs mental health help, not fatigues and weapons.
Exactly.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:53 PM
 
20,469 posts, read 13,520,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Don't they still have guidelines about mental illness? Surely someone with gender dysphoria needs mental health help, not fatigues and weapons.

Mental illness is what certain people make it; remember not that long ago homosexuality was also under that category, now it is considered *normal*.
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