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View Poll Results: Should transgendered individuals be able to serve in United States of America's military?
Yes 101 52.33%
No 92 47.67%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,222 posts, read 27,592,812 times
Reputation: 16061

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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Sure... but being gay is not the same as being a transgender person. Aren't most gay people content to remain the same sex as the one they were born as?

Otherwise, I support Trump's quick decision to ban more transgenders from joining the military. It's like Obama suddenly announcing the end to the Cuban refugee wet foot/dry foot policy. It prevents a wave of transgenders rushing to enlist into the military before that loophole could close. The loophole that is being joining our military and our government footing the bill for their sex change operations.

And Trump is the commander-in-chief.
Good point. Never thought of that .
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Old 07-29-2017, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,222 posts, read 27,592,812 times
Reputation: 16061
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332
The key words for me are "openly serving".

Gays and lesbians can openly serve as homosexuals in the military. That means that If you are married (as a gay man or a lesbian woman) and living with your spouse or minor dependents, you will either live in on-base housing or be given a monetary allowance called BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) to live off-base. The amount of BAH depends on your rank, your location, and whether or not you have dependents. (I have no problems with any of these by the way.)

If you allow transgender folks to openly serve as transgenders in the military, that means the military is responsible for their treatments and/or possible surgery. That also means if they decided to go through that "transition" while serving in the military, military cannot automatically say no.

So it is not as simple as you (the general term) think it is.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: USA
31,036 posts, read 22,064,322 times
Reputation: 19078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Considering TGs have been serving this country since its inception, I think we have studied the impact for long enough.
Name all of these thousands of Transgender people you know that have been serving since the inception of the US? Last thing we need are SJWs proclaiming you know what is best for the military.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:38 AM
 
4,798 posts, read 3,507,757 times
Reputation: 2301
No. They have mental issues, and even though they go to counseling prior to joining, its still an issue.
Second, the reason they join is for the surgery too. Thats billions of dollars of waste. Its the military, not a factory to convert you to another gender your mentally ill status cant agree with.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,922,871 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Mr. Goldwater in 1993:

"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight."

~Statement of 10 June 1993, as quoted in "Goldwater Backs Gay Troops" in The New York Times (11 June 1993); also quoted in Barry Goldwater (1995), by Robert Alan Goldberg, p. 332 ...
The above post/response was made in reply to Feldesigner's post below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Why would anyone want to stop someone from volunteering to take a bullet for our country?
To clarify: My response was in essential agreement with Feltdesigner's. I was & am not claiming gays folks are the exactly same as ... every other person, by definition or in any other way (on the contrary it is my belief there is much variability among most groupings by whatever criteria used as similarities) ~ however all groupings or individuals are virtually the same by the fact that they are human beings, & exposed to the same very human conditions as are all of us. Any one of us may want to, or may not want to, serve their Country.

Another clarification: The fact that Mr. Goldwater made the metaphorical (pun) statement by using the then common meaning of the word 'straight' as being a heterosexual, meant (to me) one's sexual orientations wasn't a suitable reason for determining a person's fitness or suitability for military service to one's Country.

As an aside, personally, while likely necessary when considering 'the big picture' the Don't ask, don't tell" policy (DADT) was pretty lame as policies go, although as noted, likely necessary in the long run or term:

..."DADT was the official United States policy on military service by gays, bisexuals, and lesbians, instituted by the Clinton Administration on February 28, 1994, when Department of Defense Directive 1304.26 issued on December 21, 1993, took effect,[1] lasting until September 20, 2011. The policy prohibited military personnel from discriminating against or harassing closeted homosexual or bisexual service members or applicants, while barring openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons from military service. ..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%...,_don%27t_tell
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Don't they still have guidelines about mental illness? Surely someone with gender dysphoria needs mental health help, not fatigues and weapons.
Exactly.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:53 PM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,961,756 times
Reputation: 24814
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Don't they still have guidelines about mental illness? Surely someone with gender dysphoria needs mental health help, not fatigues and weapons.

Mental illness is what certain people make it; remember not that long ago homosexuality was also under that category, now it is considered *normal*.
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,735,123 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Mental illness is what certain people make it; remember not that long ago homosexuality was also under that category, now it is considered *normal*.
At least by some people.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:32 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Mental illness is what certain people make it; remember not that long ago homosexuality was also under that category, now it is considered *normal*.
Being gay is a preference not a mental illness. Whether it is "moral" or "natural" as it is biologically and evolutionary useless or ridiculous has no bearing. Preferring vanilla ice cream to chocolate, while maybe "racist" by today's standards, is not a mental illness.

"Believing" that you are something that you are factually not, is simply a delusion, an actual mental illness. (Specifically gender dysmorphia in this context) Believing that you are vanilla ice cream instead of a man is a mental illness. Being gay has no relationship to being "transgender". One is preference, one is delusion.

Furthermore, encouraging, supporting, and accepting the delusions of the mentally ill is cruel and guarantees that they will never have the possibility of accepting reality and will forever be trapped in their self-negating delusions.

I reiterate my personal opinion, that no one who cannot accept/realize even the simple reality of their biological sex, should have any remote proximity to a position effecting the life and death of others. What other strange detachments from reality does such a person also entertain?
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