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The United States celebrated Independence Day with a long weekend of barbecues and fireworks, but in violence-plagued Chicago more than 101 were hit by gunfire, with 14 dying of their wounds, the Chicago Tribune said on Wednesday.
The youngest of the victims was just 13 years old and the eldest 60, the newspaper said, noting that the shootings were concentrated in the south and west of the country's third largest city.
The heavy toll came after President Donald Trump announced on Friday that he would be sending federal reinforcements to tackle chronic violence in Chicago, where local police forces were slammed for abuse in a federal report put out last January.
The long bout of holiday violence began on Friday and ended in the early hours of Wednesday, July 5. The holiday started off relatively peacefully but violence quickly escalated on Tuesday afternoon, when 41 people were shot in just 12 hours.
Chicago is a warzone! They gonna have to deploy the national guard soon.
Yeah, I agree with this. Chicago has strict gun laws, so far not helping. These gang members will always just use the black market. The question is how to stop these people from engaging in violence? Why is it so out of control there anyway?
I think you know the answer....it's unfortunately culture and specifically a gang culture in those bad neighborhoods. Also, with all the controversy around policing, it's politically to have aggressive policing. When NYC was really bad in the 90s, Giuliani used aggressive, proactive policing in bad neighborhoods to have a strong police presence in bad neighborhoods and prevent crime before it happened (instead of just responding to crime). That and apparently Illinois has very lenient sentencing, so offenders can get back out on the street pretty quickly. They've tried almost everything, and unfortunately, the only thing that would likely work would be aggressive, proactive policing in those neighborhoods but with all the scrutiny on cops, that won't likely happen.
Typical ideologue behavior. Molding facts to fit a preconceived conclusion rather than letting the facts drive the conclusion.
You assert that the problem is guns not policing. Ok. Show us your data. Show us how gun ownership rates correlate with gun homicides on a national level. They don't. So if that's not true on a large national scale then why is Chicago's murder rate soaring? You keep harping on this theme that the problem is criminals bringing guns into Chicago and yet your equation doesn't hold true in most other major American cities. They all have access to 'outside' guns and yet your model fails. For example in relatively gun-friendly Texas cities where gun control is no more stringent than in non-urban areas you see a decrease in homicides that is larger than the national average. How do you explain that? You can't because there is no correlation with gun ownership rates. Your argument that it's the "biggest" part of the problem is factually busted.
There is however a correlation between Chicago's homicides and its policing.
Arrests are down 30% this year. Criminals have become emboldened as a result of the decrease in arrests. Garry McCarthy — Chicago’s Police Superintendent up until a year ago — “officers are under attack, that is how they feel.”
The quality of policing has been deteriorating for a while. in 1991, 70 percent of murderers were arrested. By 2011, the arrest rate was down to 30 percent. This continued under Rahm Emanuel hitting a new low of 20 percent in 2016. The real number is even worse, because Chicago has been intentionally misclassifying murders, instead labeling them as subject to non-criminal “death investigations.”
From the Chicago Tribune - "Emanuel did three unfortunate things that hampered the Chicago police force. The mayor: closed down detective bureaus in Chicago's highest crime districts, relocating them to often distant locations; disbanded many gang task forces; and, in cooperation with the ACLU, instituted new, voluminous forms that have to be filled out by police each time they stop someone to investigate a crime. All this time filling out forms is time that can’t be spent policing neighborhoods. When you don’t catch criminals, the obvious result is more crime.
The detective bureau relocations have been disastrous. Detectives who had worked for years in high-crime neighborhoods suddenly found themselves working in other areas of the city, their hard-earned, neighborhood-specific knowledge of likely culprits and informants now rendered irrelevant. As one detective told Chicago Magazine, “All the expertise you once had is useless when you’re working on the other side of town. You might as well put me in a new city.” "
Take it from those in the know - those who actually live there.
So it is a neighboring state's fault that the criminals from Illinois buy guns there? Buying guns for the purpose of resale without being an FFL dealer is illegal in every state. Perhaps they should deal with their own criminals.
It is Federal law that one can not buy a gun when visiting another state. I have known of out-of-state tourists finding a gun they really want in a pawn shop in our town, and they can not buy it!
If people from Illinois are going across state lines and buying guns, they are buying them illegally, thus proving that gun control laws simply do not work.
Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals do not pay any attention to laws.
It is Federal law that one can not buy a gun when visiting another state. I have known of out-of-state tourists finding a gun they really want in a pawn shop in our town, and they can not buy it!
If people from Illinois are going across state lines and buying guns, they are buying them illegally, thus proving that gun control laws simply do not work.
Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals do not pay any attention to laws.
I am in agreement with you which is why I called them criminals.
Edit - If the tourists really wanted the weapon they could do an FFL transfer to their state.
Last edited by redwood66; 07-05-2017 at 01:50 PM..
I'll ask you again since you did not answer me the first time. It is Indiana's fault that criminals from Illinois are buying guns there? Sounds to me like blaming another state for Illinois' out of control criminal element.
That's a strange question. I don't know whose fault it is and it is not important. I wouldn't even call it "fault". I don't think anyone is at fault, there is just cause and facts.
Bottom line is, criminals are going to IN to buy guns because it is easy. No amount of gun control is going to work when your neighbor is having big sale. End of story.
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That's a strange question. I don't know whose fault it is and it is not important. I wouldn't even call it "fault". I don't think anyone is at fault, there is just cause and facts.
Bottom line is, criminals are going to IN to buy guns because it is easy. No amount of gun control is going to work when your neighbor is having big sale. End of story.
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You said that lax gun laws in IN are part of the problem, that indicates to me you think they are at fault for all the guns in Chicago. That is blaming laws in another state for crime in IL. No amount of gun control will work on criminals period.
Like the poster said earlier the IL folks buying in another state is already illegal. It must be transferred to an FFL in the buyers home state like I just said up thread. If IN folks are buying the guns and selling to IL folks that is already illegal also. So what new law exactly would stop this from happening?
But boredom mixed with desperation can turn menacing.
Ron, a 23-year-old Black Disciple who uses the nickname Kaos, and for safety reasons asked that his last name not be used, explained the relentless cycle of violence: I’ve already lost friends. If we are making money, I can ignore the urge to retaliate. “But if we’re sitting here bored, getting high and we got guns around, it ain’t nothing else to do,” he added.
You said that lax gun laws in IN are part of the problem, that indicates to me you think they are at fault for all the guns in Chicago. That is blaming laws in another state for crime in IL. No amount of gun control will work on criminals period.
Like the poster said earlier the IL folks buying in another state is already illegal. It must be transferred to an FFL in the buyers home state like I just said up thread. If IN folks are buying the guns and selling to IL folks that is already illegal also. So what new law exactly would stop this from happening?
Tougher gun laws in IN would discourage IL criminals from buying there. In effect, reducing the flow of guns into Chicago.
That's the law enforcement's conclusion, not mine (from the video I posted). If you disagree then maybe you can tell me why you know more than the law enforcement on the ground.
People don't understand many of these violence is simply boredom + guns being around.
Theoretically, if you can turn all the guns into Xboxes, the mofos will start playing games instead of shooting up the neighborhood.
This is why taking away guns is so important. No guns, they will find something else to do.
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I will agree that boredom leads to stupidity in some people but you cannot take away the right of millions because these criminals are bored.
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