Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:09 PM
 
13,586 posts, read 13,077,256 times
Reputation: 17786

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Didn't they all agree to pay a certain amount when they joined NATO? So why is it ok for them to pay less, and we make up the difference? Does that make sense to you or are you just blindly harping on Trump no matter what the issue is? The name calling makes it hard to have a conversation.
They arent dues or anything. We are free to cut our defense spending any time we want to. NATO just requires that 2 percent of gdp is spent on defense. Its not like they are stiffing us on a check or something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:13 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,750,721 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This in the LA Times today:



What's the point? This is stupid. If NATO member nations see no point in paying more, then why should they pay more?

The United States just keeps trying to shoehorn itself into the affairs of other regions. If the European nations don't value NATO as much as we do, then we're the idiots, not them! Why do Americans care more about Europe's security than the Europeans do? Again, these are our economic competitors, and spending billions of US taxpayer money on their defense while they take six week annual vacations and enjoy universal health coverage is insulting and SHOULD be insulting to the average American.

Trump puts North Korea on notice: U.S. weighing 'pretty severe' response - LA Times
Because they agreed to it. It is part of the collective defense, in that they must also have the means to provide support for this defense.

Look at Libya, it was a disaster for NATO. NATO members could not carry out its mission there without non-NATO US assets. The Aviano base failed miserably, and NATO could not even support it laughably low number of air missions. The US had to provide non-NATO support units to prop up the NATO mission. Even Obama was irritated by this.

Look at France, they needed US logistics assistance to even support its Mali operations; how in the hell are these countries going to provide real, substantive support for a large scale NATO operation? Answer is they will not, because they have not been spending enough to be able to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:19 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,116,741 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Because they agreed to it. It is part of the collective defense, in that they must also have the means to provide support for this defense.

Look at Libya, it was a disaster for NATO. NATO members could not carry out its mission there without non-NATO US assets. The Aviano base failed miserably, and NATO could not even support it laughably low number of air missions. The US had to provide non-NATO support units to prop up the NATO mission. Even Obama was irritated by this.

Look at France, they needed US logistics assistance to even support its Mali operations; how in the hell are these countries going to provide real, substantive support for a large scale NATO operation? Answer is they will not, because they have not been spending enough to be able to.
So what? These aren't operations that protect our security anyway. It's an antiquated alliance. If they don't value it, why should you? You want love that bad?

They don't love you and don't care about your stinkin alliance!! Why is that such a hard pill to swallow?

NATO exists at this point for nothing more than protecting American hegemony. Why would the Europeans want to pony up for that? Because they agreed to it back in the days when they were scared of the Soviets?

Hey bub...it's 2017. Ain't no more Soviets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:22 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,750,721 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
So what? These aren't operations that protect our security anyway. It's an antiquated alliance. If they don't value it, why should you? You want love that bad?

They don't love you and don't care about your stinkin alliance!! Why is that such a hard pill to swallow?

NATO exists at this point for nothing more than protecting American hegemony. Why would the Europeans want to pony up for that?
If you knew of my posting history, you know I always bash NATO and think the entire organization should be dissolved; it is an organization in search of a mission.

But fact is, if it exists, then members should abide by its rules.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Alaska
7,449 posts, read 5,714,718 times
Reputation: 4832
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This in the LA Times today:



What's the point? This is stupid. If NATO member nations see no point in paying more, then why should they pay more?

The United States just keeps trying to shoehorn itself into the affairs of other regions. If the European nations don't value NATO as much as we do, then we're the idiots, not them! Why do Americans care more about Europe's security than the Europeans do? Again, these are our economic competitors, and spending billions of US taxpayer money on their defense while they take six week annual vacations and enjoy universal health coverage is insulting and SHOULD be insulting to the average American.

Trump puts North Korea on notice: U.S. weighing 'pretty severe' response - LA Times
This stupid thinking on the part of liberals is exactly why obama doubled our debt by 10 trillion. Nobody should get a free pass and that includes the moonbats left entitlement teet suckers. Nothing infuriates me more than lazy asses who think someone else should pay their way. If it was up to me we would pull out of the UN and watch it collapse along with the EU. NATO on the other hand is the only thing keeping the liberal left nations of Europe from speaks their new language Russian. I'm going to enjoy watch the EU break apart. It was a stupid idea to begin with. Germany saw a chance to play big boy. Who in the hell ever thought you could get 28 countries to agree on anything? If you don't pay your way you deserve what you get.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-08-2017, 04:55 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,116,741 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
If you knew of my posting history, you know I always bash NATO and think the entire organization should be dissolved; it is an organization in search of a mission.

But fact is, if it exists, then members should abide by its rules.
It doesn't have to exist. We can remedy that. Right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
This stupid thinking on the part of liberals is exactly why obama doubled our debt by 10 trillion. Nobody should get a free pass and that includes the moonbats left entitlement teet suckers. Nothing infuriates me more than lazy asses who think someone else should pay their way. If it was up to me we would pull out of the UN and watch it collapse along with the EU. NATO on the other hand is the only thing keeping the liberal left nations of Europe from speaks their new language Russian. I'm going to enjoy watch the EU break apart. It was a stupid idea to begin with. Germany saw a chance to play big boy. Who in the hell ever thought you could get 28 countries to agree on anything? If you don't pay your way you deserve what you get.
They don't want to pay their way, so why don't you let them get what they deserve?

I'll tell you why: because you want Europeans to help subsidize American hegemony. You WANT the U.S. to be the world cop. Admit it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2017, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,044 posts, read 13,295,225 times
Reputation: 19277
Lets examine these freeloading European and their military forces.

Military of the European Union - Wikipedia

Defence Data Portal - EDA

The EU spends $226.73 billion (2016) on Defence and has a military manpower of 1,823,000 (2014) it has 546 ships, 7,490 battle tanks, 17,800 Armoured Vehicles, 9,019 Artillery and 788 Attack Helicopters, 2,090 Ground Attack and Fighter Aircraft, 435 Aerial Refuelling and Transport Aircraft.

The EU spends over three times more than Russia on Defence and spends more than China, it is second in the world in terms of defence spending after the US and has been increasing defence spending since 2014 and will continue to do so.

Whilst we support the 30,000 US Troops permanently based in Europe and the US Air Forces and US Navy, we are not freeloaders, and most European countries have either no US Forces based there or very few US Forces based there. It's not as if we leave our house every morning and see hordes of US Forces, indeed there are very few US Forces left in Europe these days.

Furthermore the amount spent on European Bases is a tiny percentage of US Defence Spending and such forces in Europe support US operations in the Middle East, Africa and across the globe.

Last edited by Brave New World; 07-09-2017 at 04:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2017, 04:17 AM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,116,741 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Lets examine these freeloading European and their military forces.

Military of the European Union - Wikipedia

Defence Data Portal - EDA

The EU spends $226.73 billion (2016) on Defence and has a military manpower of 1,823,000 (2014) it has 546 ships, 7,490 battle tanks, 17,800 Armoured Vehicles, 9,019 Artillery and 788 Attack Helicopters, 2,090 Ground Attack and Fighter Aircraft, 435 Aerial Refuelling and Transport Aircraft.

The EU spends over three times more than Russia on Defence and spends more than China, it is second in the world in terms of defence spending after the US and has been increasing defence spending since 2014 and will continue to do so.

Whilst we support the 30,000 US Troops permanently based in Europe and the US Air Forces and US Navy, we are not freeloaders, and most European countries have either no US Forces based there or very few US Forces based there. It's not as if we leave our house every morning and see hordes of US Forces, indeed there are very few US Forces left in Europe these days.

Furthermore the amount spent on European Bases is a tiny percentage of US Defence Spending and such forces in Europe support US operations in the Middle East, Africa and across the globe.
It's still too much. We shouldn't be spending anything. We don't need Europe. Never did.

We broke off from European dominion because Europe is a historical nuisance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2017, 04:30 AM
 
1,147 posts, read 715,119 times
Reputation: 750
Why are Americans desperate for Europe's gratitude? The United States does not participate in military activity just to be charitable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2017, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,044 posts, read 13,295,225 times
Reputation: 19277
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
It's still too much. We shouldn't be spending anything. We don't need Europe. Never did.

We broke off from European dominion because Europe is a historical nuisance.
It's not a case of needing other nations it'a case of working together for the common good, whether it is defence, terrorism or numerous other issues that the planet we share faces.

If we all took your attitude there would be no trade, no travel and no cooperation between nations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:11 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top