Do You Really Want Balkanization? (generation, legal, radical, speech)

[floridanative10]

Its not even in the distant past, we had the military brought into cities during the 1960's riots, over a thousand Marines, large amount of Army and close to 7,000 National Guard troops brought in during Los Angeles riots 15 years ago. Baltimore,Ferguson,etc

So many of our cities are powder kegs and its not getting better, the left and the media is just making it worse. These type of large scale multicultural, multiracial societies dont work unless its in a very right wing/ discipline and ordered/ almost fascist / singapore style society.

The whole anti cop sentiment among the left and blm is just because cops are the front line for all this social decay, you have a welfare system that has destroyed families and communities and made single parenthood more profitable from welfare than marriage, the "great society" and the 1960's social changes have proven to be a disaster.

The American left is a cancer and these huge demographic changes are going to bring chaos, hopefully a right wing arises from all this mess. The riots in the 1960s brought a George Wallace candidacy and years of Nixon and democrat defeats, hopefully we get something far more right wing than the present day Republican party

[kat in aiken]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

That's my opinion as well. Liberals want to criminalize thoughts and speech and that is the basis of our freedoms so I don't see this ending well. Liberals are having difficulty in becoming tyrannical because of the 2nd amendment rights....when they get rid of that, the next step is the end of the 1st amendment.

I think you have that backwards. It is trump and the conservatives who are wanting to remove rights. Demonizing the liberals is really popular right now, but you may end up deeply regretting trying to remove any voice that doesn't blindly follow trump. Bigly.

[switchtoecig]

Time to add some more items to the pre-civil war checklist. So, this is also what I observed in ex Yugoslavia back in the 80s :

- relatively fast demographic change in one part of the country, due to high fetrtility rates and/or uncontrolled immigration CHECK

- minority dissatisfaction with the government and majority, mutual accusations of discrimination in the area of other's influence, pet cases of people murdered, whose stories are then paraded around and used to further own agenda CHECK

- A polarizing figure appears, in some way substantially different from his predecessors. Half of the nation sees him as refreshing change or even savior, the other half as a serious threat CHECK


- followed and preceeded by emergence of bizarre, attention whoring characters on both sides who suddenly become opinion makers. Half of the nation approves, the other half wonders from under which rock this troll has crawled out CHECK

- proliferation of new and low quality media outlets whose strikingly unlikable hosts don't even try to hide their obvious bias. The same hosts getting overly agitated CHECK

- crisis and fall of established media outlets, helped by their own ineptitude and scandals CHECK

- talks of secession slowly enter mainstream from the fringe in which they've been brewing for years CHECK


This is by no means final. I saw it then over here and I'm seeing it now over there. Does it mean the same or similar outcome? I can't be sure. Freedom of speech and long democratic traditions may in the end be your saving grace. If you don't mess it up, of course.

[switchtoecig]

Originally Posted by floridanative10

These type of large scale multicultural, multiracial societies dont work unless its in a very right wing/ discipline and ordered/ almost fascist / singapore style society.

... or any type of soft or hard dictatorship. As long as it lasts, that is.

Originally Posted by floridanative10

The American left is a cancer and these huge demographic changes are going to bring chaos, hopefully a right wing arises from all this mess. The riots in the 1960s brought a George Wallace candidacy and years of Nixon and democrat defeats, hopefully we get something far more right wing than the present day Republican party

What is more important to you? Having your side calling all the shots or having a reasonable political balance in your country. Mind you, I'd ask you the same question if you were unapologetically left.

[tamajane]

Originally Posted by switchtoecig

This is by no means final. I saw it then over here and I'm seeing it now over there. Does it mean the same or similar outcome? I can't be sure. Freedom of speech and long democratic traditions may in the end be your saving grace. If you don't mess it up, of course.

These are under serious attack at present. They don't appreciate these freedoms and traditions that make US unique.

[DC at the Ridge]

Originally Posted by switchtoecig

Demographic change runs even deeper.

Back to Balkans again to get one more example: Kosovo was part of Serbia since the Middle Ages. In 2008, it became a separate country. This would have been absolutely impossible without a massive and uncontrolled demographic change which had been going on for decades before. US intervention was just the icing on the cake. With it or without it, it was just a matter of time. Even without a separate country status, that territory was already lost to Serbia anyway.

Police, National Guard, US military - demography runs through them, too. How people become tribal when the proverbial hits the fan - you would be surprised.

There are no parallels between the demographics of the Balkans and the demographics of the United States.

Your fantasies notwithstanding, the divisions in the United States are not geographically aligned. There are liberals and conservatives in all fifty states, and the ideologies of liberals and conservatives are not etched in stone. Because of the two-party dominance in the United States, ideology is not a touchstone, but a variable. There isn't really a "tribal" identity in the United States.

[Mattks]

I don't think it's a left vs right issue. I see people on the far left and far right who support Balkanization. Both sides make up a lot of stuff to make the political divide seem bigger.

The right wing lie about liberals going after free speech and guns and the left wing lies about conservatives going after minorities rights and ending welfare.

[ottomobeale]

Originally Posted by gladhands

I honestly don't understand why the Right thinks protests equal the deterioration of society. Other developed nations have major protests all the time, and sometimes they turn violent. Only the authoritarian right thinks protesters should be stopped.

Protests with masked idiots breaking things and beating opponents is the problem. I dont care if you whine about this microagression (vs some inbred retard yelling the N word) or [name] 99 time criminal doing a kamikaze run against a cop (vs some honest black guy getting a DWB ticket which I have a HUGE problem with). If your protest is just that, a protest not blocking a road, protest on. Oh and dont ask me to like it when you want my daughter to change for gym in front of a dude who thinks hes a girl.

[Hesychios]

Too much fear mongering here ...

People are still looking for that SHTF moment. It isn't happening unless they try to start it themselves, then it becomes their own in the manner of Cliven Bundy, not everyone else's SHTF.

The will to believe is very powerful, people want to see something so badly that they interpret everything in that perspective. But the big bust-out never comes, because it is all in their heads.

[switchtoecig]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

Too much fear mongering here ...

People are still looking for that SHTF moment. It isn't happening unless they try to start it themselves, then it becomes their own in the manner of Cliven Bundy, not everyone else's SHTF.

The will to believe is very powerful, people want to see something so badly that they interpret everything in that perspective. But the big bust-out never comes, because it is all in their heads.

I don't want this to happen to your country. Not just because your country but also because world as a whole.

It's just that I couldn't help noticing parallels. I am still not sure there'll be a civil war 2 in US, but one thing I am sure of - you should start actively working on peace, yesterday.

We may berate our oponents that they live in a bubble, but thing is, we all do, more or less. Living in some sort of bubble is inevitable. Life makes us do so. It makes us get up, go to work, go back home, spend our time with a few circles of people. So, in time, our opinions and expectations are formed by living our little lives with people and things we encounter there. And that goes for each and every one of us, unless we make a conscious effort to look outside. And then some more effort to keep doing that.

Think of how many people were absolutely sure that Donald Trump had no chance in heaven or hell to win the presidency. Heck, how many analysts, media hosts and others, both on the right and left, whose JOB is to talk and think politics laughed down every poor SOB who even dared to utter a peep about the possibility of him winning the primaries. How many people were not ready to see the movement forming since summer 2015. The only plausible explanation for this type of blindness is living in a bubble. The one inside which not a soul would vote Trump. Or admit to it.

When thinking about possibility of the present situation escalating into a real and long term hell, people tend to resort to “we're better than this“. Many of you have done it recently, remember? Heck, I did it a lot back in the eighties. We're better than this, my a$$. It only turned out I didn't know who “we“ were.

In my opinion, the only thing that might save US from plunging headlong into civil war is its freedom of speech. That's the only thing I believe you have going for you. If I were you, I'd protect it whenever it's endangered. People absolutely need to know what others think. You are lucky that our time has Internet as the great equalizer.