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Why does a foreign power being involved make it worse than say....
Donna Brazil giving debate questions to team Hillary in advance?
Or the DNC colluding to sand bag Bernie Sanders and favor Hillary?
Are these things not more palpable (and provable) than any collusion with Russia?
Why are Dems so obsessed with Russia while ignoring their own party's interference in the election?
Oh, FatBob, FatBob, FatBob. >>sigh<<
Brazil giving Clinton debate questions is nothing to be proud of. Couple lost their jobs over that. I'm not sure what else you wanted the DNC to do. If there had been a crime committed, you could bet Republicans would have been all over it.
In any case, doesn't hold a candle to the Trump family coordinating the campaign with the Kremlin.
We know for a fact had Clinton done this, all the Trump supporters would have said this is absolutely illegal and treasonous. Such pathetic hypocrites.
I voted No and I am strongly in favor of Trump's impeachment or forced resignation. Treason is either helping the enemy during war or trying to overthrow the government. Assuming proof of Trump conspiring with Russia is found, he wasn't trying to overthrow the government, he was using illegally obtained information to help himself win.
Stealing private computer data is a felony. If Trump or his associates conspired to distribute Hillary's private e-mails through WikiLeaks then they are guilty of being accomplices to a felony. That's an impeachable offense.
I voted No and I am strongly in favor of Trump's impeachment or forced resignation. Treason is either helping the enemy during war or trying to overthrow the government. Assuming proof of Trump conspiring with Russia is found, he wasn't trying to overthrow the government, he was using illegally obtained information to help himself win.
Unless he's trying to hand over the government to Russia, which is essentially overthrowing a Democratic elected government to be controlled by a foreign enemy. And it depends on how we're going to define war in the modern era. It's unlikely we'll ever boots on the ground in a war with Russia, yet with modern technology cyber war fare, is as or more dangerous than a physical war.
Unless he's trying to hand over the government to Russia, which is essentially overthrowing a Democratic elected government to be controlled by a foreign enemy. And it depends on how we're going to define war in the modern era. It's unlikely we'll ever boots on the ground in a war with Russia, yet with modern technology cyber war fare, is as or more dangerous than a physical war.
...Treason is either helping the enemy during war or trying to overthrow the government. Assuming proof of Trump conspiring with Russia is found, he wasn't trying to overthrow the government, he was using illegally obtained information to help himself win.
...
The Kremlin was working to overthrow our elections, and install a puppet in the WH.
Anyone conspiring with the Kremlin to do that committed treason.
Interference in an election is interference in an election.
But apparently the Left doesn't mind so much when they're the ones doing the interfering.
I don't hear anyone from any of the groups I've listed making any claims to what you are pointing out. I've also mentioned (R) in the list. Instead of the right always harping about what the left is doing why isn't the right building their own case for all the illegal dirt that left is doing and has done? I've yet to see a parallel argument from the right with anyone on the left as the focal point. When the left did their dirt they paid "dearly" for it. The right has dirt and people want it to be ignored!
Do you think it is treasonous for Americans (such as those associated with Donald Trump) to contact (phone or email) or meet with foreign powers (Like Russia) in order to collude in an effort to undermine and influence US domestic elections (such as the 2016 Presidential Election)?
I don't see where Russia influenced or undermined the Elections.
I do see where Guccifer 2.0 from Romania hacked the DNC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op
The United States Constitution (Article 3, Section3) specifically defines treason as "giving aid and comfort to an enemy in time of war"; obviously, that is not the case here. The lunatic fringe on both sides of our present polarization reveals itself a little more with every passing day.
Good point.
The Liberals are still in denial that they lost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
Why does a foreign power being involved make it worse than say....
Donna Brazil giving debate questions to team Hillary in advance?
Or the DNC colluding to sand bag Bernie Sanders and favor Hillary?
Are these things not more palpable (and provable) than any collusion with Russia?
Why are Dems so obsessed with Russia while ignoring their own party's interference in the election?
Excellent point.
What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassins?
What the DNC did was deplorable and fortunately they got caught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty
What idiot voted no to this?
I did.
I cannot find any legislation declaring war on Russia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
Interference in an election is interference in an election.
Yes, it is, and interference in elections has been taking place here in the US for decades.
The United States Constitution (Article 3, Section3) specifically defines treason as "giving aid and comfort to an enemy in time of war"; obviously, that is not the case here. The lunatic fringe on both sides of our present polarization reveals itself a little more with every passing day.
This is the right place to look. However, I don't think it is "obviously . . . not the case here."
The Constitutional language: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
We have to answer three questions first: 1) is cyberwar a war within the meaning of Article 3, Section 3? 2) Was/is Russia engaged in a cyberwar against the United States? 3) Is Don Jr.'s conduct (or other yet to be disclosed conduct) "giving aid and comfort" to an enemy?
#1 is a legal question that, to my knowledge, has never been broached by US courts. #2 is a fact question. #3 is both a legal and a fact question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty
What idiot voted no to this?
Of course it's treason. That's not an issue of debate.
I assume the person voting no was a Trump supporters who's so committed to the Cult that they just assume the need to disagree with this. Seriously, this is getting out a hand. It's treason to collude with a foreign government to influence election, regardless of Trump doing it. In the same way, murder is illegal regardless of you or I being murderers.
Believe me when I say: little would please me more than Trump Jr. & Sr. ending the Administration in federal prison orange. But it's a tough case to make that this was treason. It is still almost certainly against the law, and I suspect it is criminal conduct. But it's probably not treason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
It is not a matter of what people think. It either is or is not by LAW. And, as I understand it, by law it is treason to collude with a foreign power to influence an election.
Treason in the US demands war. Are we (or were we) in a cyberwar with Russia? Does that count?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA
I voted No and I am strongly in favor of Trump's impeachment or forced resignation. Treason is either helping the enemy during war or trying to overthrow the government. Assuming proof of Trump conspiring with Russia is found, he wasn't trying to overthrow the government, he was using illegally obtained information to help himself win.
Stealing private computer data is a felony. If Trump or his associates conspired to distribute Hillary's private e-mails through WikiLeaks then they are guilty of being accomplices to a felony. That's an impeachable offense.
This seems like the most correct reasoning to me. I'm not sure that trying to overthrow the government can get you to treason. Somebody tries to lawfully overthrow the government every four years. Overthrowing the government by levying war against it: that is treason. Cyberwar? I don't know.
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