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Old 07-16-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,746,643 times
Reputation: 5007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
People get killed crossing the street. We still need to cross streets. The fact that a tiny percentage of people react badly to vaccines while those vaccines save MILLIONS of lives is lost on you?

I'll add, if research can be done to make them even safer for those few people, I'm all for it! But we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Would you inject your children with a vaccine that could kill them or cripple them for life, if the vaccine wasn't necessary? There are plenty that simply are simply "recommended".

I have my kids take ones that are life saving, but, I always say "no" to the flu shot, for example. There's no reason a healthy 14 y/o should inject those toxins into their body to potentially guard against something that wouldn't kill them, imo.

My last check-up I told the doctor to only give me what is absolutely necessary. She listed several that were just "recommended" and told me I didn't need those. Tetanus is a good example. Because I've had tetanus shots in the past, I was supposed to just have a booster. The doctor explained that on the extremely off-chance that I got tetanus, I could just get the shot after-the-fact & receive the same benefit. Why would I inject myself with something that could potential harm me, to prevent something that is extremely unlikely & could just be treated after-the-fact with no negative consequences?
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:41 AM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,277,004 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
So you would be ok if one of your kids died so you can protect others? Some people are not willing to do that.
I did take that chance when my kids were immunized. If it had gone bad, I agree with you that I may not be rational or unbiased in my views anymore. Thankfully mine were just like that vast majority and they were fine. I would consider someone who was not up to taking that risk, which by the way is less of a risk than getting in your car and driving to work, as being irrationally selfish.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:44 AM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,277,004 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Would you inject your children with a vaccine that could kill them or cripple them for life, if the vaccine wasn't necessary? There are plenty that simply are simply "recommended".

I have my kids take ones that are life saving, but, I always say "no" to the flu shot, for example. There's no reason a healthy 14 y/o should inject those toxins into their body to potentially guard against something that wouldn't kill them, imo.

My last check-up I told the doctor to only give me what is absolutely necessary. She listed several that were just "recommended" and told me I didn't need those. Tetanus is a good example. Because I've had tetanus shots in the past, I was supposed to just have a booster. The doctor explained that on the extremely off-chance that I got tetanus, I could just get the shot after-the-fact & receive the same benefit. Why would I inject myself with something that could potential harm me, to prevent something that is extremely unlikely & could just be treated after-the-fact with no negative consequences?
I'm purely thinking of vaccines that have a broad public health implication. Voluntary vaccines are just that. Up to the parent. Mandatory ones are for the good of society.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:44 AM
 
19,718 posts, read 10,118,354 times
Reputation: 13081
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
I did take that chance when my kids were immunized. If it had gone bad, I agree with you that I may not be rational or unbiased in my views anymore. Thankfully mine were just like that vast majority and they were fine. I would consider someone who was not up to taking that risk, which by the way is less of a risk than getting in your car and driving to work, as being irrationally selfish.
Many people are not willing to sacrifice their children for others.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:46 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,746,643 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
I did take that chance when my kids were immunized. If it had gone bad, I agree with you that I may not be rational or unbiased in my views anymore. Thankfully mine were just like that vast majority and they were fine. I would consider someone who was not up to taking that risk, which by the way is less of a risk than getting in your car and driving to work, as being irrationally selfish.
When you get into the risk game, it's almost always a self-serving way of justifying your beliefs. What are the odds of being killed with an assault rifle? What are the odds of being killed in a Muslim terrorist attack? What are the odds of being shot by the police if you're Black?

I have no problem with people blindly trusting any vaccine the corporations say you should take. I do have a problem with people telling everyone else they have to take them too.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:48 AM
TKO
 
Location: On the Border
4,153 posts, read 4,277,004 times
Reputation: 3287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Many people are not willing to sacrifice their children for others.
But they aren't sacrificing anyone. They're taking a slight risk that they might. Similar to the risk they take driving to work to feed those kids. They get in a crash and those poor kids are suddenly orphans. Stay home and never leave and you ensure that doesn't happen. How can you not see that this is the same thing?

No offense there but it's clear to me. We take risk in life to make life better. Sometimes it doesn't make it better, but that doesn't mean you stay in your house with doors locked because "something" might happen if you go outside.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:50 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,746,643 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
I'm purely thinking of vaccines that have a broad public health implication. Voluntary vaccines are just that. Up to the parent. Mandatory ones are for the good of society.
There's not a drug company on the planet who doesn't want them all to be mandatory. Big pharma spends more on lobbying for this type of legislature than any other industry. Let that sink in. More than banking, more than big oil, more than the military industrial complex, et al.

Also, there are plenty of people who believe you should have to take every vaccine & that to to be wary of any makes you an "anti-vaxxer". It's like everything that's become politicized. People find themselves trending toward extremist positions, like a 1 or 10 on a 1-10 scale and if you're a 5, you become an outcast.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:52 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,746,643 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKO View Post
But they aren't sacrificing anyone. They're taking a slight risk that they might. Similar to the risk they take driving to work to feed those kids. They get in a crash and those poor kids are suddenly orphans. Stay home and never leave and you ensure that doesn't happen. How can you not see that this is the same thing?

No offense there but it's clear to me. We take risk in life to make life better. Sometimes it doesn't make it better, but that doesn't mean you stay in your house with doors locked because "something" might happen if you go outside.
Isn't not taking a vaccine also just a "slight risk"? How about MMR? How many people die of the measles in the US? What % died before the vaccine? People used to have "measles parties" where they'd bring their kids to get it over with. Dying was extremely rare.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:57 AM
 
19,718 posts, read 10,118,354 times
Reputation: 13081
My stepson starting having seizures after starting vaccines. His doctor said not to give him any more. The seizures stopped. But it left him with a learning problem, according to the neurologist he saw, it was most likely a result of the seizures from the vaccines.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:59 AM
 
19,718 posts, read 10,118,354 times
Reputation: 13081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Isn't not taking a vaccine also just a "slight risk"? How about MMR? How many people die of the measles in the US? What % died before the vaccine? People used to have "measles parties" where they'd bring their kids to get it over with. Dying was extremely rare.
Very true. Every child I knew when I was growing up in the 50s had the measles. I never knew one that even really got sick from it. Most of those that did die most likely had other health problems that may have killed them.
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