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Old 07-27-2017, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoOnMyMind View Post
The biggest problem for the GOP is their lack of messaging. If you google "skinny repeal" your results will be nothing but negative twitter and articles from left wing websites about it killing people. In actuality it only lifts the mandates that force individuals to purchase insurance or pay a penalty, it's the most unpopular thing about Obamacare and 2/3 of citizens do not support it.

The CBO report that this will cause 16 million people to lose insurance in 10 years is actually 16 million people CHOOSING to not purchase insurance.
Really, So you don't think that a fair number of those people won't be the ones who lose employer provided healthcare once there is no employer mandate? You're sure more optimistic than I am. And it's 16 million by 2018, not in 10 years
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:00 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,471,648 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
I can't get Obamacare. I have an employer provided plan, and have to pay huge penalties to my employer in the form of lost retirement benefits if I go off their plan. Group plans with 51 or more people on them are exempt from the free checkups (as well as all of the other essential benefits requirements). I have always had to pay for vaccines out of pocket, even before ACA. Screenings vary. If I get them at work, they are free. At a doctor, I have to pay for a full visit, which gets expensive fast.

My statins are only $10/month, but getting the prescription written requires over $1k in exams and blood work.
Crazy high. A new patient visit and appropriate labs, discussion, recommendations and Rx should be in the $200-300 range. Sorry I'm booked up since I'm cutting back towards retirement.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:00 PM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
Reputation: 3647
You know what the funny thing is?

This bill that Mitch McConnell is rushing to pass in the middle of the night while nobody is watching doesn't touch medicaid.

All it touches are the working class people who bought their policies on the individual market.

So McConnell is screwing the working class and keeping Medicaid intact.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
You know what the funny thing is?

This bill that Mitch McConnell is rushing to pass in the middle of the night while nobody is watching doesn't touch medicaid.

All it touches are the working class people who bought their policies on the individual market.

So McConnell is screwing the working class and keeping Medicaid intact.
I'm sure the hope is that the Senate can get away without too much political damage, kick it back to the house and let the house conference committee add back in the medicaid cuts. These people simply do not care about health care or about their constituents.
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Old 07-28-2017, 06:24 AM
 
46,281 posts, read 27,099,738 times
Reputation: 11126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I'm sure the hope is that the Senate can get away without too much political damage, kick it back to the house and let the house conference committee add back in the medicaid cuts. These people simply do not care about health care or about their constituents.


Yea, so when people cannot afford this insurance, lets fine them...that's show them that they need to get off their butt and get a job, right, or get a better job....that's looking out for your constituents....
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:06 AM
 
330 posts, read 177,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Technology makes leaps in many industries, not so much in medicine. Because of the necessary costs of development and then delivery into the conventional medical systems. And then the basically one on one, face to face application.

So things like pacemakers/defibrillators and the MRI happen after a long inventive process, but so complicated and slow, the technology doesn't lower costs. In fact we find more patients to apply the technology, and that adds up quickly.

The da Vinci surgical gizmo, same thing.

Laparoscopy was a nice jump. Not so much cheaper, but less invasive and easier on patients.

Our near death spirals were at age 51 for me X2. Mine congenital heart. Hers lymphoma, except the next to last a near fatal car wreck, not our fault. Ages 48, 52, 56 and then 60 X2. We don't even feel old!

lol
If technology doesn't make the leaps in medicine, it is only because of lack of competition int he doctor's office. Lack of Market Forces in the Doctor-Patient relationship.

Thanks for the help in making my point.
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:11 AM
 
46,281 posts, read 27,099,738 times
Reputation: 11126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Really, So you don't think that a fair number of those people won't be the ones who lose employer provided healthcare once there is no employer mandate? You're sure more optimistic than I am. And it's 16 million by 2018, not in 10 years

Was there an employer mandate prior to the ACA? It seems your just spewing words and not actually doing any research....
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:58 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,471,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 2 4 View Post
If technology doesn't make the leaps in medicine, it is only because of lack of competition int he doctor's office. Lack of Market Forces in the Doctor-Patient relationship.

Thanks for the help in making my point.
What sort of competition in the office? Doctor vs another doctor? Or treatment choices that I might have at my disposal in rendering care?

There are some weak market forces doctor-patient, and occasionally strong ones. I constantly work to care for my patients in the best bang for the buck way. But most patients don't know, don't care or have no or next to no comparison to realize this. Same with my general medical knowledge and ability. Much of this is slow word of mouth information.

But even then the patients and their 3rd parties don't necessarily pay more or less, as most reimbursements/payments are prefixed by the 3rd parties. And those are most always lower than the docs desires. Have been since the late '80's. So the need for so many to rush and see many patients. So docs competing on price doesn't happen. Facilities can for some lesser and less acute medical encounter charges.

Then one must consider that as many docs wages have stalled for 30 years like the rest of the middle class, why costs are rising so high? Remember that the docs wages are but a small part of the total bill. The doc essentially controls or directs the medical spending for the vast bulk of his or her practice. So one doc may spend an enormous amount of total HC dollars over another, without having any better outcomes.

And this could be due to a lack of knowledge and experience. Laziness. Or other secondary gain like greasing other docs, facilities or hospitals bottom lines. At the end of the day, the medical spending there is typically many times larger than the docs salary. When I did much hospital work in the '80's and '90's, my hospital revenue alone was about 10X my personal earnings. This why hospitals always want more docs. More docs, more gets done, more revenue for the hospital. Not lower prices per patient. Prices are preset. And in any medical community at any time. much in medicine is left undone. For all sorts of reasons. More docs and more of this gets ferreted out, and costs rise with more docs. Not lower because of doc-doc competition. Although there will be outliers like Lasik. And there is an orthopedic center in OK that does preset discount work.

https://surgerycenterok.com/

One of the reasons IMO that the USA has such a larger overall HC bill is because we moved toward more expensive specialty medicine starting in the early '80's. Before that, as a general internist I cared for 75-90% of all my sub-specialty patients without referral or transfers. Now the bulk of these patients see a a specialist regularly, some more than one. So with more docs, more gets done, and with specialty medicine costs rise much faster. And the outcomes for most patients are no better. Sure a few specifically require the specialist. Maybe 25% these days.

This is the key graph, that I watched in real time develop, starting the early '80's with invasive cardiac procedures, numbers far out of line with any other country:

https://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files...es_chart03.gif
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
Yea, so when people cannot afford this insurance, lets fine them...that's show them that they need to get off their butt and get a job, right, or get a better job....that's looking out for your constituents....
I'm not sure when someone with no money and no job was fined for not having insurance, nor can I recall any politician suggesting that.
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,772 posts, read 3,223,143 times
Reputation: 6110
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Hahahahah.

"Journalist" of that opinion piece even admits it's nonsense.
this inherently murky statistic
i.e. He made up some nonsense.
Read the book "Dark Money". It will confirm that the Koch brothers have paid a lot of money to make you think the way that you do.
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