California to drop algebra requirements for community colleges because "students of color" cannot pass (working, spend)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is the (Hispanic) Chancellor of the California Community Colleges who is saying blacks and Hispanics CANNOT do it.
Us white guys are saying blacks and Hispanics CAN do it.
It is YOU defending his decision.
It is US criticizing it.
Translated: The evil white people think minorities fully capable while minorities such as yourself have something akin to an inferiority complex. All the while insinuating that we think you inferior.
Good grief. Your stances are bizarre mixes of passive-aggressive behavior, self-hatred, and just plain ole dishonesty.
I can only shrug my shoulders. When I've said earlier on different thread that I think Blacks ( and Hispanics) are less capable of math/science than Whites, there was a lot of indignation in response. "No, it's not true."
Now apparently the statistics prove it, and so - the decision of the Chancellor ( who is a Hispanic himself as you say.)
(WOMEN overall are less capable of math/science too by the way, no matter what PC crowd would like me to believe.)
On a bright side - this has little to do with the definition of "being stupid" as some are insinuating here.
The understanding of math requires certain type of brain function, more tuned to smaller details than a "bigger picture." Often people that are OK in math ( book-keeping, accounting) are quite limited in understanding of other concepts, failing to connect dots of the "bigger picture" - the kind of brain function that's required for good writing, or understanding of psychology and so on.
So being limited in understanding of math does not = "being stupid," as no IQ test in the world can measure the understanding of music or, say, of classical art, which again implies its own level of intelligence.
If an individual person cannot grasp the concept of Algebra, then let the school help them find a career path that they can do with some sort of college education. Do not make an entire race of people suffer because of some self loathing idiot.
This pisses me off! I want people to succeed because the more that people succeed, the less I have to pay for them. They can pay for themselves, because they are successful.
The more people succeed, the more likely they are to take care of their things. And take life more seriously, not view it as one big joke or one big party. The more successful a person is, typically the more calm they are, the happier they are, the better neighbor they are. They are more involved in their community. They want their area to look nice. They want their area to be a safe place with good neighbors.
Success and happiness is FAR better than bitter, resentful, and regretful.
Stop telling people that they can't make it. Stop belittling people who may take longer to understand something than others. There is no flipping time line on how long it takes to learn fricken algebra. It doesn't have to be mastered by high school graduation if the kid didn't get it, or if their school SUCKED. They get out in to the adult world and get another shot at things by continuing their education. If they can't do math, if the schools won't even offer math, the person is not going to get far in life at all.
And life will catch up to them, and next thing you know, 15 years will go by and they still never did get those math courses they needed...now what? Now what do they do? They could have been making good money in a good job that entire time, but noooooooo, racist CA thinks that they don't even deserve to TRY!
I cannot wait to get the hell out of this pos state and back with sane people. Thank GOD it will be soon.
It is the (Hispanic) Chancellor of the California Community Colleges who is saying blacks and Hispanics CANNOT do it.
Us white guys are saying blacks and Hispanics CAN do it.
It is YOU defending his decision.
It is US criticizing it.
Translated: The evil white people think minorities fully capable while minorities such as yourself have something akin to an inferiority complex. All the while insinuating that we think you inferior.
Good grief. Your stances are bizarre mixes of passive-aggressive behavior, self-hatred, and just plain ole dishonesty.
The chancellor is right. You are wrong.
Blacks and Hispanics, as groups, can't perform at the same level as Whites. On every cognitively loaded exam that exists, they perform worse than Whites and Asians and the spread of underperformance is extremely consistent. There is not one school district in the country where Black or Hispanic students perform at the same level as Whites.
Saying that all groups are equal doesn't even make any sense given that there is no evidence for it. It should be expected that groups vary in performance since individuals vary in performance and different groups are made of different individuals.
Thing is, mechanics and air conditioning people will use math more than many college grads. Look at most of the liberal arts programs. Art, English Lit or feminist studies majors don't need even 9th grade HS math to make fries. At least one of our posters has stated repeatedly that even 4 year universities don't require any math standards for liberal arts majors.
By the same standard though-why do we force people taking "trades" or STEM courses to take classes like sociology, literature or art appreciation? A total waste of time for those that actually want to better themselves and prepare themselves for careers in adulthood. It's another thing for those that are planning on university as a 4 year party and are just looking for an easy major. It's not like we use Shakespeare in our daily lives.
I'm still nothing but glad that I got STEM degrees but my feelings have certainly changed over the years about those elective courses I had to take. At the time I thought they were a contemptible waste of my time. I short-changed them as much as I could. Like taking one of my required govt classes at the community college over the summer. That was allowed back then. Don't know about now. I did it because CC classes were blow offs compared to their University equivalents and I just didn't give a F about anything but my engineering coursework. I pi$$ed and moaned about my history classes too but I actually ended up really enjoying them. Same thing with anthropology, astronomy and meteorology. Those really stuck with me. Maybe more so than some core courses that I just KNEW were going to be key to my whole future career ... and I ended up never using them at all because like most people I changed careers about 3 times.
In short, careful about those things you're certain you'll "never need". Lol. Even if you don't use those elective subjects to make your living with they might give you some of the most memorable and pleasurable bits of learning you take away from college. There's a reason for forcing young people to get somewhat well rounded. At that age people have no clue what their future holds.
I have noticed since things like word processors have moved writing from the incredibly tedious slog of handwritten text to corrections to more text to a draft typewritten copy to a revised spell checked and edited copy to writing a draft on the screen, with a spell checker slowly teaching you correct spelling, to transmitting the material or printing it out at your desk, writing has become an effective way to comment. I am a scientist and have used algebra and calculus in my work over the years. Because I have not had to use these techniques recently I only remember the basics.
What I am recalling is sentence structure and some of the rudiments of grammar so I can comment on the things I learned in classes on History, Economics and other electives. I find, now that most of the tedium has been removed, I like to write commentaries and editorials.
So, beyond learning the basics of arithmetic and maybe algebra, I do not see any reason for forcing students to be forced agonize over material their brains can only absorb with great difficulty. This is wasting their and the teacher's time. I suggest that instead of continuing to use the old batch processing method developed for mass industrial production the schools try and pay attention to individuals instead of large groups of diverse individuals. After all learning is a continuous individual process and should be recognized as such.
Teaching students how to observe, take notes, think about what they observed and draw accurate conclusions about politics and finance is far more important then finding the results of F= MA unless you are into rocketry.
My university offered both elementary Algebra and College Algebra courses. However, they were not considered to be college level courses. A good number of people take elementary Algebra in 8th grade. If you took them, you did not get graduation credit. The lowest college level math courses were pre-calculus, statistics or discrete mathematics. The school had problems with the failure rate. They were on the top of the D/F list. To help with the passing rate, they decided to make it pass/fail. That did not work. To graduate, you had to take a quantitative reasoning course. Most of the courses were math courses. Since elementary and college Algebra were not credit courses, if you fail them, you would eventually be kicked out of the school.
I have noticed since things like word processors have moved writing from the incredibly tedious slog of handwritten text to corrections to more text to a draft typewritten copy to a revised spell checked and edited copy to writing a draft on the screen, with a spell checker slowly teaching you correct spelling, to transmitting the material or printing it out at your desk, writing has become an effective way to comment. I am a scientist and have used algebra and calculus in my work over the years. Because I have not had to use these techniques recently I only remember the basics.
What I am recalling is sentence structure and some of the rudiments of grammar so I can comment on the things I learned in classes on History, Economics and other electives. I find, now that most of the tedium has been removed, I like to write commentaries and editorials.
So, beyond learning the basics of arithmetic and maybe algebra, I do not see any reason for forcing students to be forced agonize over material their brains can only absorb with great difficulty. This is wasting their and the teacher's time. I suggest that instead of continuing to use the old batch processing method developed for mass industrial production the schools try and pay attention to individuals instead of large groups of diverse individuals. After all learning is a continuous individual process and should be recognized as such.
Teaching students how to observe, take notes, think about what they observed and draw accurate conclusions about politics and finance is far more important then finding the results of F= MA unless you are into rocketry.
Then where do you think the wonderful software came from? Can those failed in basic math write the code? Or if the schools lower standards, can we produce enough qualified engineers for the future?
Maybe you think the "tedious" jobs should all be done by Indians and Chinese? You just listen to music and write "creative" comments?
I see your point that education should be more individually designed. However, we still need some universal standards so people know what you can do with that degree.
Can those failed in basic math write the code? Or if the schools lower standards, can we produce enough qualified engineers for the future?
I don't see any connection between these things. Nobody who stops algebra because they are really bad at it and it isn't required would have gone on to be a qualified engineer.
Quote:
Maybe you think the "tedious" jobs should all be done by Indians and Chinese? You just listen to music and write "creative" comments?
So are they saying black people are too stupid to be able to learn this? If I were black I'd feel insulted.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
