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Old 07-26-2017, 03:15 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,072,579 times
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I see these horrific cries from the left, especially lately against John McCain about the 'two-faced nature' of his vote for reforming healthcare by siding with the Republican stance. As if he personally wants all sick people to die.

I get where the Democrat/Liberal voice is coming from- but it seems like a lot of them are making it out that Republicans/Conservatives want to strip them all of their healthcare on some kind of principle.

Reforms are in order, and I'm sure a better system can exist than the one we have (ACA) and the one we had prior to that, but isn't the basis of these changes really about Fiscal Responsibility?


I take issue at a lot of the attacks from the left, because they're expensive.
There certainly isn't an unlimited supply of healthcare or funding.

The support I do have for the current administration is that they boasted smaller government, less intervention, tightening of belts. Government primarily targeted for middle income people (the majority).

I'm not sure why the right doesn't come out and say, "Hey, in a perfect world we'd all have healthcare and remain insured and have fall-back money, but we don't. We've spent at an Alarming Pace forever... and that debt is catching up to us. We are cutting back across the board until our cash flow is resolved."


So, I guess what I'm curious about on here-

Do you think the right is just intentionally taking away things because of principle, or do you think the motive is primarily fiscal? It could be both too. Just curious how people see it.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:19 PM
 
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For whatever reason, the right can always find money for wars and tax cuts for the wealthy. Go figure.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:22 PM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,462,725 times
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Principle. The necessary money for HC can and will be found/created moving forward.

McCain just voted to continue with HC reform discussions, not repeal Obamacare. He did so because owes his buddies for their support of his military bills. I seriously doubt that he will vote to eliminate AZ Medicaid.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:23 PM
 
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What tax cuts for the rich?
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:24 PM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,566 posts, read 10,611,363 times
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McCain didn't really side with the Republicans. He voted yes to continue the debate. The problem is the word "repeal". There should be no option to repeal at all. Fix what is in place and move on.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:25 PM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,566 posts, read 10,611,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
What tax cuts for the rich?
Wow.

The rich get a $250,000 tax cut under the GOP's health-reform bill
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:26 PM
 
18,984 posts, read 9,067,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
For whatever reason, the right can always find money for wars and tax cuts for the wealthy. Go figure.
Truth. And they always look to fund these things on the backs of the middle and lower classes. They are right now attempting to gut Medicaid and remove healthcare access to millions of Americans so they can use the money to fund their tax cuts. That's the GOP way.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:28 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,656 posts, read 28,654,132 times
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I think the right wants to take things away due to principle. Due to getting even with the Obama voters, due to anger. If that's called "principle." I'd like to think they actually want to make things better for everyone or for most people but they don't. It's just out of spite.

If they really wanted to make things better, they'd work with the Democrats and make things better. They would compromise, they'd use their heads and think, they'd listen to everyone instead of whoever they're listening to (their own constituents, like coal miners with Black Lung Disease who are on Medicaid and need health care but who don't seem to realize that it's Obamacare that they are using.)

The moderate Dems and the moderate Repubs are pretty much the same and should work together. Forget the loons in both parties. They could come up with something that would really be great if they would work together. Kick out the stupid Freedom Caucus and kick out those who concentrate on such tiny minorities as transgenders and get with the majority of Americans. Work for AMERICANS, not just for their own political party.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:32 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
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Your post sounds very reasonable, except for one thing.

The problem isn't that the supply of healthcare is limited. The problem is the price of healthcare. So today, because its expensive, we'll let 10% of our population get sick. That's not going to stop healthcare from getting more expensive. Tomorrow, the expense will be such that it will be too expensive for 25% of our population. That won't stop it from getting more expensive, so then we'll be seeing 50%, 75% and even 90% of our population do without healthcare.

Healthcare is expensive because we, Americans, are covering the losses the healthcare industry experiences globally. We are subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare. It is too expensive for Americans to foot the world's healthcare bills, but because other countries control healthcare pricing, and we don't, we will continue to foot the bill.

The lobbyists have a stranglehold on our legislators, and Trump really doesn't care about you, he really doesn't have a plan (where everybody will be covered and it will be cheaper than anything we've seen), and until Americans realize that not only is our future a rich-only healthcare model, but that future will be grounded on a decimated economy (because we already devote an overly large portion of our economy to healthcare and insurance, and the baby boomers are just beginning to start relying on that economic sector--creating more and more pressure on our economy until it breaks).

Obamacare wasn't a solution. But it was a step in the right direction. Trump and the GOP want to reverse direction. But that will make the problem significantly worse.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:56 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 5,072,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Your post sounds very reasonable, except for one thing.

The problem isn't that the supply of healthcare is limited. The problem is the price of healthcare. So today, because its expensive, we'll let 10% of our population get sick. That's not going to stop healthcare from getting more expensive. Tomorrow, the expense will be such that it will be too expensive for 25% of our population. That won't stop it from getting more expensive, so then we'll be seeing 50%, 75% and even 90% of our population do without healthcare.

Healthcare is expensive because we, Americans, are covering the losses the healthcare industry experiences globally. We are subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare. It is too expensive for Americans to foot the world's healthcare bills, but because other countries control healthcare pricing, and we don't, we will continue to foot the bill.
I recognize our heathcare is nearly 40% more expensive than the rest of the world, and I do agree that we very often take on expensive roles in development and administration of new medicines- where the rest of the world caps costs, the companies make up for it here in the US.

Healthcare most certainly is a limited resource though.
Doctors, Hospitals, Nurses, Medicine Research, Drugs are tangible things.

We are producing less doctors and hospital beds now than we need, and a big part of it is the level of compensation isn't where it was a generation ago. Doctor families are encouraging their children to go into other fields, namely because of rising malpractice insurance and rigid board recertification standards.

Medicare Taxes are the same 2.9% in the 32 states that expanded it, as the 18 that did not.
Not to criticize the goal of the Obama ACA, but how can you expect to pay for this without considerable tax increases?
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