Businesses Who Won't Pay A Living Wage Shouldn't Be In Business (nationalist, how much)

[NLVgal]

Originally Posted by Kevdawgg

There are tons of liberals who say "Businesses who won't pay a living wage shouldn't be in business". I suggest them to run a business and pay a living wage. Their mouths shut really quick.

I'll bet you have never increased revenue without new sources of income while simultaneously giving your employees a raise. I have.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Pilot1

Private sector unions have been legal and existed for many, many decades. However, now they are in great decline. Why?

Because of right wing states passing right to starve (aka right to work) laws, which do to unions what Kathy Bates did to James Caan in Misery ala "the hobbling"

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Because of right wing states passing right to starve (aka right to work) laws, which do to unions what Kathy Bates did to James Caan in Misery ala "the hobbling"

Ahhh, no. Nice try Komrade.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Pilot1

Ahhh, no. Nice try Komrade.

Ahhh, yes. With right to starve laws, unions have to give non union members in a shop the same pay and benefits as members, but without collecting dues. This starves the union out, hence, hobbles them

https://youtu.be/2pbfkNI2d_A

[s1alker]

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

30-40 years ago there were no big box stores that needed employees. That group of people worked on assy lines, machine shops , tool shops etc... all making livable wages or working their way up to it. Our politicians along with corporations sold us out, and we let them. This is what we are left with.

Well to be fair, a lot of those assembly line jobs done by turn-a-bolt Bob have been made redundant by technology. We are indeed bringing back manufacturing back to the US but the work will be done by robots in dark rooms.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome

Until Reagan, and the beginning of the theft of America's wealth by the corporate sector, followed by the offshoring of American jobs, American business had no problem paying a living wage; that, in fact, is how the American middle class was built.

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Exactly.

Lots of people made a living wage working at the drug store, cashiering at the local grocery store, ...

Reagan with his amnesty for illegal immigrants and union-busting started the ball rolling to undercut American workers.

Originally Posted by GregW

Interesting that most of the posters opposing a minimum wage, let alone a livable wage, seem to be well off enough not to be personally effected, except possibility, have to pay their employees more.


The emotional and economic reason for Regan's tax cuts and mass immigration was to separate the hourly employees from the salaried and the dividend earners. Apparently too many of the hourly workers were showing up at the previously exclusive entertainment places like national parks, golf courses and ocean beach resorts. Since Regan, wages have been almost numerically static and their values decreased by inflation. This has resulted in a change in the use of these high end playgrounds to salaried people instead of the hourly paid people. Thus semi exclusivity has been returned. Happy Days, for the few, Are Here Again.

i am not opposed to a minimum wage law, as long as it is done at the STATE level. keep the damned feds out of it. a one size fits all minimum wage doesnt fit anyone. what works well in arizona does not work well in california. if the state of california wants to set a $!5 per hour minimum wage, then let them do it. if arizona wants to set a $10 per hour minimum wage, then let them do that.

as for blaming reagan, off shoring of jobs started long before reagan even though of running for president. also note tht loaws are generated in congress, not the office of president, so if you want to blame anyone, blame congress. presidents may set the tone of the government, and they may set the direction that they want the government to move in, but congress is the ones that gets the things done, or not done.

Originally Posted by crone

Free market capitalism is not working.

free market capitalism works just fine, the problem though is that we DO NOT have a free market. we have one that is heavily regulated on many levels.

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

I agree , but it started much earlier than Reagan's era.


Those same people on the left that might have said "If you can't pay a living wage you shouldn't be in business" are probably the same ones that screamed "protectionism" when many of us chastised offshoring due to our companies not being able to compete with slave labor. You can't have your cake and eat it too. They are reaping what they sowed...actually we all are.

Originally Posted by scarabchuck

30-40 years ago there were no big box stores that needed employees. That group of people worked on assy lines, machine shops , tool shops etc... all making livable wages or working their way up to it. Our politicians along with corporations sold us out, and we let them. This is what we are left with.

exactly right, to a point. 40 years ago the big box stores were places like sears, jc penny, target, and others. walmart was still a growing company looking for an edge.

the other thing, those that are saying that businesses that cant or wont pay a living wage should not be in business, today scream protectionism, but when FDR said it in the 30s they were all for protectionism.

Originally Posted by Pilot1

What is a living wage, and in what part of the country? Duh, they're idiots.

that is always a good question, what is a livable wage? however they are not idiots, they are running on emotion alone.

does a "livable wage" mean that the person in question can buy everything they want in life? if so then with some people $15 par hour is not a livable wage anywhere in the country. how many people do you know making minimum wage still go out and buy the newest gaming systems and game on the market today? how many of them also have cell phones with unlimited plans? how many of them constantly buy newer cars every couple of years, and finance them?

and then ask yourself of the people i mentioned above, how many of them complain they dont ahve enough money? how many of them are low skilled workers who constantly complain about their jobs, who do the minimum to keep from getting fired? how many of them are working to improve their job skills so they can move into a better job? how many of them do the things necessary to move into a better situation?

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by Chance and Change

What is the issue with understanding economic dynamics?

America did not stop producing in American because they can't make a profit in America.. they went to Outsourcing out of pure and basic "greed" and following history, of still looking for slave wage low to no cost labor. Because they wanted to make 300 -3000% profit, and claim high wealth.
But the cost was tremendous to American and the American Nation, it cost us more as a Nation and People to produce offshore.
Because we accumulated broken down infrastructure, diminished school funding, our industrial-economic system crashed due greed chasing outsourcing gaming by the wealth.

RESULT: Everything in American along with the American People, our standard of quality and maintenance standard of self, home, cities and general infrastructure has suffered; Including our cities filing bankruptcy.

RESULT: that 300-3000% profit that corporate madeand makes = result to cost this Nation 600%-6000% in structural losses to the American stature and standards which is can no longer maintain, instability in education and programs of many sorts that help people and environments of community, business
development and , deterioration of infrastructure, for land movement, air transport, and sea port function, community standards have fallen from one Coast to the Next with only small pockets where some well to do have their enclaves, other system and people living standards have been damaged by those who seek to gain 300-3000% profit ... and their pursuit has left us and strapped us with 20 Trillion in Debt as well, that's how we suffer double or quadruple the loss by what is Outsourcing... 600%-6000% in structural losses is only a part of the overall loss, when you add in lowed quality, inflation and lower volume of what we purchase, and all the things that have declined. A simple peach now, cost us $2.99 a pound... in system where the basic Minimum wage is $7.xx... ((Do you see the idiocy of what greed has done... and we have not stood up to stop it...))

The Greed of America People is what has always been the great detriment unto America.

In the late 1960's we did not owe China any money... Today, we can't even dress ourselves or find shoes to wear without China. We love Cell Phones, but without China we'd not even have one, because American were too greedy to build it here, but for the price they want to sell it to American, they could have made it here, and paid average $20 hr. with benefits and still would have made a healthy profit. The same is true with Tennis shoes and much of the stuff, we pay such prices for, so these companies can gained 300-3000% and pay executives 10's of Millions and up per year..

For the sake of a few gaining more money than they will ever spend, to the point, people claim to forget they have assets of $10's of Millions and every $100 million or so. ( Ask Kushner and the Steven Mnuchin ).

The Wealthy don't care about the damages they do.. they just play the "speculation game of Stock swapping, for the spin of money like they were in a Casino)... unaware of the damage they have done and are doing to the country and its people. They simply "Don't Care"..
We know every company on the market, could not produce and market enough of anything they sell to meet with the stock ticker claim of value. They'd stashed money offshore and hid it every place they can, while they play - "gamble on the fiction" as if its entertainment. They crash companies like its a "Business and Industry Demolition Derby" to see how many can be crashed and how quickly, and who can crash the most and loot them in the process of doing so.

What America needs is a New Program... that Support Business Start Up- and there needs be a clause that any business that grows from this program to be strongly successful, "Can NEVER be traded on the Stock Market". We need to build sustainable stability,..

Here's what we are facing:



Those who chase greed that has and continues to damage American, are quite foolish.... they have the same greed driven mindset that shipped away industry and set up China to become the Industry Capital of the World, and now they don't know what to do, other than keep gouging Americans, and keep running up debt, because it does not have the Industrial capacity to sustain itself as the model it built when it had industrial capacity, and they are just too ignorant and greed driven to face up to the real truth.
There is "no taking back some industry"... and automation will continue to diminish some types of jobs. But we have greed driven people, unaware to think in terms that rebuild American as the leader in making what serves the future. IF WE WERE SMART... All these wealthy people would be trying to support start up 'on American Soil", reinvigorate the system process of OJT and elevate a wage structure to meet with the people being able to function at the "promoted image of what is America and that includes a rate of pay, so people can purchase what they build and what each other markets to sell". people will pay the cost for US produced "QUALITY" goods, that are "durable", and we can mover our society away from the "mass cheap disposable market".. not only would we help our environment, we'd minimize the waste of raw materials, which in the long term becomes a structured savings. We'd become AGAIN, a nation who build, but also maintain a strong replaceable parts supply system. This in turns creates another area of employment, by having technician who can install replaceable parts. Disposable Goods has not served us or the world very well. We've only multiple the rate of filling up landfills, of having a mass of disposable items where a low % of it is actually, recyclable.. and only in limited locations around the nation.
When people "learn better HOW to complain", then we can get thing moving toward change. But we need to know what we expect and what we want and stand on that. Then the pressure is applied to the wealth to change, because we won't accept what they offer up without them making such changes.

Do you see the idiocy of what greed has done... and we have not stood up to stop it...
We act "dumbfounded as if we are helpless".... We are not Helpless.... (will write on this later).. [/quote]


Agreed. Capitalism has crossed over into just pure greed.


CEO Pay Has Grown 90 Times Faster than Typical Worker Pay Since 1978 | Economic Policy Institute

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by gallowsCalibrator

Yep. This. After learning a bit about how Australia does their minimum wage, while I wouldn't want ours to be so convoluted, the basic premise of a graduated minimum wage would be a great place to start in moving back to minimum wage being a living wage.

I absolutely agree. I grew up in Australia so while I know that their system isn't perfect, and is, as you stated, convoluted, it would be a good starting point with wages adjusted accordingly for the U.S economy.

One thing that does differ about the minimum wage jobs in Australia though, is that they are mainly staffed by high school and college aged people. You don't often see staff over 25 (with the exception of managers and supervisors) working at grocery store checkouts or fast food restaurants. There seems to be more age diversity in jobs like that here in the U.S. That can be construed as both a positive and a negative.

[scarabchuck]

Originally Posted by s1alker

Well to be fair, a lot of those assembly line jobs done by turn-a-bolt Bob have been made redundant by technology. We are indeed bringing back manufacturing back to the US but the work will be done by robots in dark rooms.

Oddly enough, my one an only "factory" job was at a robotics manufacturer 30 years ago. I worked on the floor in final assembly, basically setting up the line and debugging it. Many of us "turn a bolt Bob's" goals were to either work our way up to management or into the technical Engineering and Design part of the company.


You focused on the assembly line , only one of the things I mentioned. There were far more skilled machine shop, fab shop and tool shop jobs that were lost than assembly line. Yet we all focus on those button pushing jobs....
And don't forget, every plant has engineers, millrights, electricians etc.... all skilled.

[Chance and Change]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

When the market set wages the working class was GROSSLY underpaid and when the workers tried to create unions to negotiate they were promptly shut down and had to fight tooth and nail to be heard.

See Posting - discussing such decline and the nature and expanse of the damages. also, the reasoning of which many people care not to consider and many people make much effort to deny, and many people won't look within situation of conditions to acknowledge these things as being contributing factors as in being part of the motivations of the wealthy Industrialist to generate such domestic damage upon and against the "general working poor" within the American system. We have to come to be people who face, truths before we can fix things and move forward. What we deny, only trips us up, hangs us up, and hold us back and if we move, it slows us down as a people and as a nation....