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Old 07-29-2017, 07:37 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
"Liberty" and "Freedom"?

https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...xoCYgsQAvD_BwE

U.S. score = 89 gone down three points in the last year alone.

U.K. " = 95
Germany = 95
Canada = 99
Sweden = 100
Finland = 100
Norway = 100

I guess, since you suggest attaining better "Liberty" and "Freedom" being your primary motivation for moving, you'll be getting calls from those willing to help you to pack?
Get what you're saying here ~ your assertions here are reality-based as opposed to purely ideology-based. Reality is often a 'blind spot' for those who tend to be ideology-based.

Here's a balanced, rational, & pragmatic reaction to the The Road to Serfdom:

Quote:
George Orwell responded with both praise and criticism, stating, "in the negative part of Professor Hayek's thesis there is a great deal of truth. It cannot be said too often – at any rate, it is not being said nearly often enough – that collectivism is not inherently democratic, but, on the contrary, gives to a tyrannical minority such powers as the Spanish Inquisitors never dreamt of." Yet he also warned, "[A] return to 'free' competition means for the great mass of people a tyranny probably worse, because more irresponsible, than that of the state."[36] ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Serfdom
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:40 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,431,657 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think I get the main gist of what you're saying, these are interesting times (uncertain if the sentiment expressed by the classic 'may you live in interesting times' was meant as a blessing or a curse? ).

The long story short version of what I'd like to add here is that Central Planning v Market Economy is a false dichotomy. To illustrate, consider the relatively recent conditions created by the Cold War between US & Russia. & what each Nation (not just US & USSR) did after the Cold War 'ended'.

One of the reasons why I've made the assertion (here on C-D forums) that 'China won the Cold War' is because of the way that China, post Cold War, began or continued its transition from a planned to a market economy. One of the reasons for its relatively smooth (& yet still ongoing) transition was the underlying 'philosophy' of retaining the 'Wall' in their financial sectors to avoid conflicts of interests destructive to the economy as a whole. Central planning along with the 'Wall' between banking investment functions v banking savings functions allowed for their previous growth model, based on exports & investments, to move towards a model based on services & consumption. The goal or objective being to maintain stable growth & employment while also promoting market forces in the allocation of capital. The institutional infrastructure was already there, so to speak, to move in that direction, slow & steady, also so to speak.

This metaphorical 'Chinese Wall' in the financial sectors was, imho, also significant when observing how China was not harmed as much in the recent global financial systems imbroglio. Their 'Wall' is comparable to the metaphorical 'US Wall' put in place after our Great Depression through enactment of the 'Glass-Steagall' type legislation & enforcement. Our 'Wall' was slowly dismantled, brick by brick, until 1999 when ...



Mr. Weill Goes To Washington - The Long Demise Of Glass-Steagall | The Wall Street Fix | FRONTLINE | PBS
(Very good timeline of events leading up to at the link if anyone is interested.)

While Russia’s transition from central planning to a market economy was implemented differently & perhaps, in a more drastic fashion, there were & continue to be different results or outcomes.

In the long run, each Nation attempts to establish some sortof plan to accomplish what is in its own best interests, there is no ONE right way to do these things. Most times attempting to reach & maintain the right balance ends up being one of the biggest challenges. Also determining the focus &/or direction, where do we (as a Nation) want to go?
Very interesting perspective that stimulates thoughtful consideration.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:52 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,431,657 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Get what you're saying here ~ your assertions here are reality-based as opposed to purely ideology-based. Reality is often a 'blind spot' for those who tend to be ideology-based.

Here's a balanced, rational, & pragmatic reaction to the The Road to Serfdom:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Serfdom
It has become the new normal to think you've done your duty as a citizen to simply buy into the most popular propaganda.

The problem comes when that propaganda is coming at you from a very narrow selection of sources such as the two defined avenues in American politics today. You must be either a "this" or "that" with no room for best parts of either.

All of this bandying of simplistic "buzzwords" made popular by talking heads standing on soapboxes without looking at the past with some degree of impartiality has caused a major schism.

We tend to want to take the lazy man's approach of selecting our leader based upon the words we hear come out of his/her mouth on any given day rather than careful consideration of their proven track record and position on issues.

If it were as simple as reducing the pick of any leader, without regard to the harm we can do to a country, as selecting from a row of Chevvies or Fords, it would be a no brainer; just pick the colour you like and drive the thing until you get tired of it. Countries need far greater consideration as to charting a course as times and influences change.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
It has become the new normal to think you've done your duty as a citizen to simply buy into the most popular propaganda.

The problem comes when that propaganda is coming at you from a very narrow selection of sources such as the two defined avenues in American politics today. You must be either a "this" or "that" with no room for best parts of either.

All of this bandying of simplistic "buzzwords" made popular by talking heads standing on soapboxes without looking at the past with some degree of impartiality has caused a major schism.

We tend to want to take the lazy man's approach of selecting our leader based upon the words we hear come out of his/her mouth on any given day rather than careful consideration of their proven track record and position on issues.

If it were as simple as reducing the pick of any leader, without regard to the harm we can do to a country, as selecting from a row of Chevvies or Fords, it would be a no brainer; just pick the colour you like and drive the thing until you get tired of it. Countries need far greater consideration as to charting a course as times and influences change.
Gotcha

But wait ... stop making sense! Double-plus-ungood for the ratings & all.

Seriously, long-term v short-term goals, objectives, et cetera. & here I'm hopeful & this is why: human beings are creative & critical thinking beings, give us time, we'll get there or die out as species trying.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Early America
3,100 posts, read 2,046,940 times
Reputation: 7827
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbbyJuice View Post
No counter-arguments eh? Only insult type responses?
Pointing out your outrageous false premise is not an insult. You lose. Just because you suckered a few posters into accepting your false premise doesn't validate your fallacious argument.


BTW, if Brits are having to choose between food and soap and water, then maybe they need to reevaluate what they are doing. Perhaps they could begin by getting rid of their biggest welfare recipient - the royal family.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:27 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,431,657 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Gotcha

But wait ... stop making sense! Double-plus-ungood for the ratings & all.

Seriously, long-term v short-term goals, objectives, et cetera. & here I'm hopeful & this is why: human beings are creative & critical thinking beings, give us time, we'll get there or die out as species trying.
Hey; I'm of the same theology! America, among many others, is comprised of a far wider spectrum of those critical thinkers then we are more commonly confronted with.

In that sense countries are not at the inevitable whim of the loudest voices. Oh sure; any country can endure a period of "affected" negative influence but people are not immune from reality and will usually rise to the occasion of: "well that went badly, now what?" Committing the same choices, (mistakes) over and over again expecting different results is a popular saying but it is actually the simple root to all considerations optioned by average people.
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