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I "don't look down on strippers or prostitutes" either, but I have some concern about them, and yes..., "rather complicated" is something of an understatement...
Makes the whole matter of making the sex trade legal, since much of that argument is to reduce the risks for sex workers, and of course we have places like Nevada and Amsterdam where prostitution is legal with what doesn't seem to be negative consequences related to health, crime and/or violent incidents.
I am a male, and of course I have never been to a strip club. I only know what I do from reading and hearing about these experiences from others, of course...
So for me, the varied female perspectives about this sort of thing are interesting, and generally "all over the place." Women are generally against being objectified, yet what is more objectifying than working as a stripper, or paying for that entertainment?
I think the biggest problem (for me anyway) is the young woman on the stage who "could be my daughter." Say what you will, but I wouldn't want my daughter stripping for a living, let alone prostituting herself. Can't imagine all the degrading crap that must go with that, no matter how you look at it/her!
well, most women are not prostitutes or strippers. So I don't believe anybody here need to worry about it so much.
Do I think those that own strip clubs are exploiting women? I believe the issue is complicated. What is wrong with this statement?
Prostitution should be decriminalized, not legalized, in my opinion.
Legalization would still be a step up from criminalisation but the concerns around it is that it then creates a two tiered problem. When it is legal, you have regulations put on my government but then you will also have people who are marginalized or in low socio economic group that can’t necessarily fulfil government demands and so become criminals again.
Decriminalization doesn’t penalize those who are marginalized, amongst other reasons, it allows people to work towards a better future for themselves and their kids but they have recourse and access to health clinics, police support etc.
Laws prohibiting prostitution have one intent - to deny people access to sex in exchange for money. Even if paying for sex is a real problem, which is debatable, it isn't one that can ever be solved. Better to focus on the problems we can solve, like human trafficking, disease, and physical abuse. We can only do that if prostitution is legal, and regulated.
How can we regulate it if there is already a black market? Because legalization changes the economic and risk/reward equation. Right now, all prostitution carries equal risk. Reducing the risk for activities that fall within the law will dramatically reduce the occurrence of actual problem activities.
So as a woman, I believe prostitution should be decriminalized. should it be legalized? I am not sure.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-02-2017 at 10:22 AM..
You follow my logic, but to be logical you must also avoid taking such logic beyond the logical point.
Working on a street corner because some pimp has hooked a hooker on crack, leading her to "consent" to turn tricks for money is one thing. You paying your utility bill is another. Capice?
If what you said what you meant then it resolves to coercion (by whatever cause) leads to nonconsensual employment.
Accepting a limited set of forms of coercion as causes of nonconsent has nothing to do with the logic of the principle or in general, the principle itself isn't logic it's a statement. The logic comes in in the application of the principle to people in general. Thus if coerced prostitution by drug addiction is in principle "wrong" then surely coerced employment by utility bill is equally "wrong". Since there's little logic in discriminating forms of employment (as all forms can be considered a type of prostitution) or coercion (because unless you are the coerced you cannot make any rational determination about how severe the degree of coercion is).
On your last paragraph, to be "logical" we'd need to know whether the hooker was hooked before they started hooking to determine how valid their consent is.
If I follow your logic, I can't give consent when I have bills to pay.
Agreed. I don't know why people think that's a valid argument.
I mean, no one would willingly choose to clean public toilets for a living unless they really needed the money. Should we be equally as "concerned" for them?
Also, if we know that someone needs a certain job to pay the bills, why would anyone instinctively respond by seeking to eliminate that job so that the person has fewer ways to get by? Seems kinda sadistic to me.
well, most women are not prostitutes or strippers. So I don't believe anybody here need to worry about it so much.
Do I think those that own strip clubs are exploiting women? I believe the issue is complicated. What is wrong with this statement?
Prostitution should be decriminalized, not legalized, in my opinion.
Legalization would still be a step up from criminalisation but the concerns around it is that it then creates a two tiered problem. When it is legal, you have regulations put on my government but then you will also have people who are marginalized or in low socio economic group that can’t necessarily fulfil government demands and so become criminals again.
Decriminalization doesn’t penalize those who are marginalized, amongst other reasons, it allows people to work towards a better future for themselves and their kids but they have recourse and access to health clinics, police support etc.
Laws prohibiting prostitution have one intent - to deny people access to sex in exchange for money. Even if paying for sex is a real problem, which is debatable, it isn't one that can ever be solved. Better to focus on the problems we can solve, like human trafficking, disease, and physical abuse. We can only do that if prostitution is legal, and regulated.
How can we regulate it if there is already a black market? Because legalization changes the economic and risk/reward equation. Right now, all prostitution carries equal risk. Reducing the risk for activities that fall within the law will dramatically reduce the occurrence of actual problem activities.
So as a woman, I believe prostitution should be decriminalized. should it be legalized? I am not sure.
I don't really consider the topics of these threads as much from a personal standpoint but more from a general standpoint. That my daughter is not a stripper, for example, does not mean I can't imagine the good and bad of this issue, or that I shouldn't. Most people are not crack heads either, but whether none of the people visiting this thread should concern themselves with crack heads, simply because they are not crack heads..., I don't know. Up to you and others I suppose.
Yes, the issue is "complicated!" Nothing wrong with that statement.
Whether to legalize or decriminalize is also complicated...
If what you said what you meant then it resolves to coercion (by whatever cause) leads to nonconsensual employment.
Accepting a limited set of forms of coercion as causes of nonconsent has nothing to do with the logic of the principle or in general, the principle itself isn't logic it's a statement. The logic comes in in the application of the principle to people in general. Thus if coerced prostitution by drug addiction is in principle "wrong" then surely coerced employment by utility bill is equally "wrong". Since there's little logic in discriminating forms of employment (as all forms can be considered a type of prostitution) or coercion (because unless you are the coerced you cannot make any rational determination about how severe the degree of coercion is).
On your last paragraph, to be "logical" we'd need to know whether the hooker was hooked before they started hooking to determine how valid their consent is.
I can agree with you generally speaking. True...
All simply depends on how we define "consent," and I for one have no issue with two consenting adults doing anything they wish in private and/or in public settings, businesses, such as strip clubs.
On the other hand, I am not blind or insensitive to the cases where what seems like "consent" in the early going leads more toward circumstances of coercion, sooner or later, in all too many cases to ignore.
In the same way, I don't object to the person who cleans toilets to make money, if this is what they choose to do, but I don't think the likelihood of people becoming coerced into cleaning toilets is as likely. I also don't think people CHOOSE to clean toilets but do so for other reasons that raises issues of a different sort.
The OP asked a question. People offered their opinions and insights. Call that what you wish...
I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make.
I responded to YOUR post. There is nothing to debate about, simply means that if you agree the issue is complicated, then we (you and I) are in agreement. There is nothing else to "argue" or "debate" about.
I don't quite understand what point you are trying to make.
I responded to YOUR post. There is nothing to debate about, simply means that if you agree the issue is complicated, then we (you and I) are in agreement. There is nothing else to "argue" or "debate" about.
If I had to summarize or simplify the point I am trying to make (aside from all the collateral comments simply to provide more information and context), I suppose it would be that stripping and/or prostitution are by no means "slam dunk" ways to make money free of very real risks of coercion and harm that can't be ignored.
If you or whomever agrees with this conclusion, then what further to debate might be how best to address those who are victimized by such work even though many are not.
What would really be interesting to know is just what numbers of women feel they work these professions fully "consenting" without any further issue or concern versus how many would confess they are victims of some sort. I have read many articles about those who seem perfectly okay with the trade and just as many if not more about all the abuse and harm to women who have less than "pretty pictures" to paint about the work.
Fair?
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