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Old 08-04-2017, 04:18 PM
 
Location: The Windy City
4,448 posts, read 2,024,119 times
Reputation: 3566

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
How can unions be hurting the economy when less than 10% of the workforce belong to one? If you don't like the economy today, blame the overpaid CEO's, outsourcing, and low wages paid to non-union workers.

There's a clear trend over the years that as the middle class abandoned unions, their wages went down too. That's "slitting your own throat."
I'm speaking mostly about the state where I currently live, Illinois. Unions are partially to blame for the decline of the blue collar job market in the Midwest.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:23 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
8,776 posts, read 4,952,141 times
Reputation: 9041
Private sector unions can do a lot of good. Public unions are a terrible idea. Like others said, it also depends on the union. Some unions are great at fighting for their workers and others just collect dues.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:25 PM
 
1,158 posts, read 279,113 times
Reputation: 993
I think it's great when my competitors have to deal with one or more unions.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Officially Retired Now from City-Data.com
3,173 posts, read 1,372,138 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Miteybad View Post
I think it's great when my competitors have to deal with one or more unions.
A unionized employee, a Tea Party member & a corporate CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches out & takes 11 of the cookies, then says to the Tea Party member “look out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie.”
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
28,338 posts, read 24,925,182 times
Reputation: 72972
If you don’t want good wages with benefits, healthcare, education, vacation, retirement, safe working conditions then look for a non-union job otherwise you can work a company and trade that provide the quality of life that people want and deserve in this country. It’s a choice you can make in America in most of the states, if you don’t have a choice then leave and move to a state that doesn’t protect its workers under their laws. But you shouldn’t complain about workers who are doing well for their families.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Officially Retired Now from City-Data.com
3,173 posts, read 1,372,138 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The 40 hour work week was implemented by Ford to attract workers due to market conditions for labor.
Key word here is implemented. Yes, Ford implemented the 40 hour, 5 day workweek. However, he didn't invent it. The movement for an 8-hour workday originated among Australian workers in 1856 and was taken up by the International Workingmen’s Association, a European organization led by Karl Marx.

Another thing to examine is what working conditions were like before unions. Or see what they are like in China right now, where as you presumably know, workers had to kill themselves to get conditions changed (and that worked only because the plant was making components for iPhones, among other things, it was products being sold to affluent buyers who might actually feel a wee bit guilty). There is a reason why capitalists like setting up shop in third-world countries. Why? Because capitalism is inherently geared towards wealth and power accumulation towards every fewer people. Less regulations, less unions, less threat to the hierarchy. Capitalism is a blind mechanical system of progressive, exponentially-increasing impelled extraction. It is a non sequitur in a closed system of declining per capita resources.

Workplace safety standards, the eight hour day, employee pensions, etc. are the result of union efforts. And if you think that you, or any other partisan hack, isn't a beneficiary of the past efforts of unions, you really do have a bad case of ideology-induced blindness.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:51 PM
Status: "that felt good!" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Austin
9,018 posts, read 4,980,311 times
Reputation: 9839
I worked for a city government union for a year part-time while working on my master's degree. The majority of the union employees were sweet and good people, but the laziest employees I ever worked with in my 35 year professional work life. They never worked one minute past quitting time, never did one thing extra other than their job, and took every personal sick day allowed even when not sick. When raises are automatic there is no reason to do anything extra. I would have quit and worked somewhere else if I hadn't needed the experience on that job. Working with union employees was a very frustrating experience I never repeated.
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Old 08-04-2017, 04:54 PM
 
3,844 posts, read 3,806,683 times
Reputation: 3709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Unions were a product of labor shortages during the 20th century..
Huh?

Not true at all. Just look up the Pinkerton's.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:01 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
4,403 posts, read 1,126,600 times
Reputation: 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
Huh?

Not true at all. Just look up the Pinkerton's.
Agreed. Unions are the product of employer abuses, poor working conditions and few if any labor laws designed to protect employees. Collective bargaining was the tool used to bring employers to the table and level the playing field.
We now have labor laws. We have employee rights written into laws.

As some have mentioned. Unions protect the under achievers as aggressively as they do performers. Not all employers are unfair. Mine is pretty fair, although I disagree with the CEO salary as well as with what managers in general are paid.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Upstate New York
10,421 posts, read 3,623,392 times
Reputation: 3695
The world operates by leverage and bargaining power.

Without unions, employees have no bargaining power. They are forced to do whatever the employer demands, or they starve. That means longer working hours, lower pay, poor working conditions, little or no vacation, benefits, or retirement.

Remember the 1950s that we remember so fondly? When you could get a job that paid a living wage with only a high school education? Unions were much stronger and represented a much larger share of the workforce compared to now.

Germany has much stronger unions compared to the US, and they therefore have a much stronger middle class and better wages. They don't let 0.1% of their population capture half the wealth due to an imbalance of power between employers and employees.
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