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Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
Status: "Last of the Bull Moose" (set 11 days ago)
 
2,047 posts, read 372,169 times
Reputation: 918

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Remember the thread that more people 18-34 live at home?

Connect the dots.
Not only that, look at the wealth gap, there seems to be a reverse correlation between the decline of unions and wealth concentration.
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Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM
 
583 posts, read 640,356 times
Reputation: 1164
I still strongly believe in collective bargaining. There's no other reason for a company to pay anything but the minimum.

I'll add two points:

1) I think it is hypocritical when phonies like Scott Walker go after teachers unions but are afraid to go after fire or police unions.

2) The laziest, most entitled people I've ever worked with have been disabled veterans. They work a system meant for protecting truly disabled vets and abuse it with their fake claims for the monthly check. THey know they cannot be fired and they take full advantage of it.
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Earth
14,935 posts, read 20,151,706 times
Reputation: 5812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Not only that, look at the wealth gap, there seems to be a reverse correlation between the decline of unions and wealth concentration.
Also there's one between the decline of private sector unions and illegal immigration, as well
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Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM
Status: "Last of the Bull Moose" (set 11 days ago)
 
2,047 posts, read 372,169 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I'm speaking mostly about the state where I currently live, Illinois. Unions are partially to blame for the decline of the blue collar job market in the Midwest.
I disagree respectfully.

The corporations run off to states with Right To Work laws, where wages and benefits are worse. The company I work for started in Chicago, where they paid almost the same as union scale to attract and keep workers...

then after the 'superhighway' system was started they put all of their expansion in small towns in Illinois away from Chicago, cutting the pay by ten to twenty percent. Later they moved into states like Kentucky and paid 70% of what they paid in the small towns of Illinois. Eventually the Chicago plant was shuttered, and many of the older small town plants after that. That is what they mean by Human Resource Management, it's not a service for the employees, it's the science of manipulating people to get the most bang for the buck.

Now that same company is heavily invested in Mexico and China, and has been turning it's back on American cities and towns one after the other. It will turn on the Chinese too if they figure they can move to Bangladesh or Vietnam.

Some people say, "break the Unions" and make the place job friendly, but those jobs do not pay a living wage, the employers make certain of paying as little as possible and don't leave any money on the table. Like I said, it's a science.
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Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM
 
402 posts, read 195,986 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
Huh?

Not true at all. Just look up the Pinkerton's.
If all you need to unionize is political will and collective action, why don't American workers unionize? It should be easier now given the ease of mass communication and labor laws.

The answer is that if workers in the US did attempt to unionize, management would either automate their jobs or outsource their operations.

There are billions of scabs in Asia and elsewhere. And automation technology gets better and cheaper every year.

There was a similar golden age for labor after the bubonic plague killed 1/3 of people in Europe. People were in short supply so laborers could demand higher wages. The guilds sprang up to exploit labor's newfound bargaining power.

Similarly the relative immobility of capital and the world wars and socialist autarkic policies of the 20th century made labor valuable when complemented with capital. Then the socialist economies opened up like China and India, and human capital spread to other countries meaning capital could flee the high wage developed world.

Political will and collective action are necessary but not sufficient to form trade unions. Labor shortages are also necessary.
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Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Pahrump, NV
1,797 posts, read 2,256,169 times
Reputation: 1432
i belong to a union. my father belonged to a union. this is my 1st union job. i've read/heard some horror stories over the years. not all unions are created equal & yes i think they are important, when used correctly.
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Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
2,810 posts, read 4,222,707 times
Reputation: 3046
I've had both Union and Non-Union jobs, as has my husband (I'm currently a SAHM, he works and is currently a Union member). My husband agrees that the conditions in the two union workplaces he has worked in, are far superior to the non-union workplaces.

At his current job, we get excellent and affordable healthcare through the Union at very minimal expense.

Other than that, the main benefits I see are that generally the pay is higher, there is a contracted pay raise in the Union contract- both cost of living raises and otherwise. While some non-union employers are nice enough to do this, it has been both DH and I's experience that not all of them do do this. Additionally, if there are any issues, it is nice to be able to approach the union rep to sort out any grievances with management. In some non-union workplaces, it can be easy for employees to feel that they have no voice against management.

I absolutely don't think unions are obsolete- I do think they still have a role.

The less power unions have, the more some employers will use that to their advantage, even if it disadvantages the employees.

----------------------------

E.T.A.: I've heard that some unions are pointless and dreadful (such as a Union my mother was a member of, decades ago), but my husband and I's experiences have been positive. So I think that the specific union does make a difference.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
 
14,939 posts, read 5,663,501 times
Reputation: 4527
Unions are still needed because some employees are still abused and companies don't look out for them. Unions still look out for their employees. I'm from a union family. My healthcare is paid for 100 percent. We pay a $10 co pay at the doctors office. And our prescriptions cost $2 for generic and $8 for brand. If you have those kind of benefits non union then good on you. But many companies can't beat union benefits.
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 PM
 
43,420 posts, read 33,942,953 times
Reputation: 26280
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
What is your opinion on unions?

My opinion: We should thank unions for making workplaces safer and for implementing weekends off and 40hr work weeks, but I think they've outlived their usefulness. In 2017, they seem to hurt the job economy more than help it. States with large union presences have slower growing economies and slower job growth.
You're like 20 years to late.

Private unions have been gutted since the late 1990's where Bill Clinton and Republican house and senate passed NAFTA sending most of those jobs overseas.

Anymore private unions are like complaining about seeing pay phones in public.

Now PUBLIC unions are a different story but those are more often up to localities that can decide for themselves.
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Old Yesterday, 09:23 PM
 
43,420 posts, read 33,942,953 times
Reputation: 26280
Quote:
Originally Posted by glamatomic View Post
I've had both Union and Non-Union jobs, as has my husband (I'm currently a SAHM, he works and is currently a Union member). My husband agrees that the conditions in the two union workplaces he has worked in, are far superior to the non-union workplaces.

At his current job, we get excellent and affordable healthcare through the Union at very minimal expense.

Other than that, the main benefits I see are that generally the pay is higher, there is a contracted pay raise in the Union contract- both cost of living raises and otherwise. While some non-union employers are nice enough to do this, it has been both DH and I's experience that not all of them do do this. Additionally, if there are any issues, it is nice to be able to approach the union rep to sort out any grievances with management. In some non-union workplaces, it can be easy for employees to feel that they have no voice against management.

I absolutely don't think unions are obsolete- I do think they still have a role.

The less power unions have, the more some employers will use that to their advantage, even if it disadvantages the employees.

----------------------------

E.T.A.: I've heard that some unions are pointless and dreadful (such as a Union my mother was a member of, decades ago), but my husband and I's experiences have been positive. So I think that the specific union does make a difference.
Would be really helpful if people would state public or private unions in their posts.
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