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Old 08-05-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Florida
15,927 posts, read 16,224,668 times
Reputation: 16158

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
Union bosses got greedy and did nothing for their members so they contributed to their own demise. Years ago they were less crooked and greedy.
Like many things, what started out as a good thing became terribly corrupt.
But it wasn't just the bosses that got greedy but the workers also, that started seeing pay scales that were really beyond the level of expertise their jobs required.
As a young girl, I remember going to my assembly line auto worker uncle's house for the first time and finding him in a neighborhood of doctors, lawyers and other professionals.
Eventually, many non-union companies started making big improvements so as to match the union shops in order to keep unions out. And then along came some protective laws.
So, in effect, unions were still responsible for those benefits to the workers.
The whole change to a world wide system makes it doubtful that anything resembling the effect unions once had could be duplicated now.
For those unions still prominent in some trades, contract requirements that only union workers be used is a financial albatross.
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:45 AM
 
2,435 posts, read 1,164,142 times
Reputation: 4596
Unions guarantee only one thing, to take money from your paycheck every payday.
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:52 AM
 
Location: USA
5,421 posts, read 4,769,251 times
Reputation: 3637
I am not a proponent of unions, and you certainly pay more for union labor. I will say this though. I have employed union trades for clients that will only use union labor. These are tradesman, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. The skill level of the subcontractors was high, and they did good work because their employers demanded it, and it was in critical environment. I saw no slackers on the jobs in which I contracted, and the jobs were done on time for the most part, and within budget. Yes, the budget was larger than a non-union contractor, but my hands were tied by the owner/client. We probably paid a 30%+ premium for union contractors.
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,049 posts, read 4,434,168 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Would be really helpful if people would state public or private unions in their posts.
Sorry

We are in Missouri- my husband is a member of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,684 posts, read 1,114,403 times
Reputation: 2556
Unions = Capitalism for the Worker.

Anybody that thinks having labor laws negates the need for unions is an idiot that don't know what they're talking about. Likely white collar that have never been on a job site.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:04 AM
 
12,777 posts, read 13,395,297 times
Reputation: 6902
Private sector - sure

Public sector - absolutely not.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: USA
5,421 posts, read 4,769,251 times
Reputation: 3637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
Unions = Capitalism for the Worker.

Anybody that thinks having labor laws negates the need for unions is an idiot that don't know what they're talking about. Likely white collar that have never been on a job site.
Unions are not "capitalism". They are collectivism, more similar to a communist system. Read my post above, I've been on LOTS of job sites for very large projects, and a project manager/owner's rep. I do the budgets, and schedules with the architects, and GC. I have final say, so I see the cost premium we pay for union labor. It is very significant. It depends on the union, and union sub contractor, but I'd go with non-union contractors if it were my $$$. However, due to the geography, the owners hands are tied, as the unions will participate in destructive activity if not used, or the city just mandates union labor, which should be illegal.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,684 posts, read 1,114,403 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
Unions guarantee only one thing, to take money from your paycheck every payday.
Ever work for a temp agency?

Quote:
For example, if a temp worker is paid $15 per hour, the company for which they are working may actually be paying $25 per hour for their services. The temp agency keeps the extra $10 per hour of the pay. The markup is typically 50% to 100%, and is 66% in this example.
Lets do some math.

For 40 hours a week, and an average 4.33 weeks per month a temp agency employee would be giving up $1,732 a month. That's about $20k a year that a temp employee is being charged for but will never see. And this is so the client does not have to worry about dealing with all the things a normal employer would have to deal with.

I'm in one of the largest most powerful unions in the United States. The International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. My monthly dues are usually about 45-50 bucks, and then our working assessments, or "working dues" are about 48 dollars a week (it's a percentage) based on a 40 hour week.

Lets do some math.

4.33 weeks in a month that comes out to about $207. Tack on another 50 for monthly dues, we're looking at $257 in overall monthly dues. In a year this comes out to about $3,000 in dues working an average of 40 hours a week all year.

So lets see.

$20k a year to pay to work (we didn't even factor the health insurance premiums), making $15 an hour vs
$3k a year to pay to work making $28 an hour and no health insurance premiums for Cadillac insurance, job security, good training, guaranteed raises. Which one would you take?
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:23 AM
 
4,194 posts, read 2,783,838 times
Reputation: 2690
Historically, despite the commies, the mob, the corruption, etc., unions have been a net plus for working men and women.
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,684 posts, read 1,114,403 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Unions are not "capitalism". They are collectivism, more similar to a communist system. Read my post above, I've been on LOTS of job sites for very large projects, and a project manager/owner's rep. I do the budgets, and schedules with the architects, and GC. I have final say, so I see the cost premium we pay for union labor. It is very significant. It depends on the union, and union sub contractor, but I'd go with non-union contractors if it were my $$$. However, due to the geography, the owners hands are tied, as the unions will participate in destructive activity if not used, or the city just mandates union labor, which should be illegal.
No, unions are capitalism for the worker. Why do the same work for less money? That's capitalism to you?

Since when is subsidizing the employer by making less money capitalism? Capitalism for the employer sure, but not for the employee.

I make about 20% more than my non-union counterparts. I guess it's "not about the money" for a lot of non-union folks, but don't try to say that's capitalism.
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