U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-08-2017, 08:58 AM
 
14,375 posts, read 7,085,168 times
Reputation: 7422

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
No. He used "average". Average, a mathematical and scientific term with a definite meaning, does not apply to individuals within a group.
Average means a "central tendency" from a statistical point of view.

So he was stereotyping a majority of women by saying they have a "central tendency" to be less assertive and that they suffer from anxiety and that these are inherent reasons (he said they were "biological") for them not having higher salaries than men nor having more women working in leadership positions at Google and tech firms in general.

When most people use "average" they mean the majority of a particular group. Even mathematically an average is "the middle" or a "typical" number that is represented more than the high or low figure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:02 AM
 
5,682 posts, read 1,712,156 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
You get that it's rude to do this, right?

What woman at Google would ever feel like she'd get a fair chance at a job or a promotion with a man like him working there?
All of them? Almost every man everywhere agrees with him (and most women as well), and women get along just fine working with those men. And he made it clear that he's just talking about distributions of attributes, which implies nothing about an inability to evaluate the attributes of any specific person.

A better question is, what man would feel like he'd get a fair chance at a job or a promotion at a place like Google where official company policy (not the mere opinion of a single employee) is that women get preference over men?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Austin
11,027 posts, read 6,208,809 times
Reputation: 11919
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Average means a "central tendency" from a statistical point of view.

So he was stereotyping a majority of women by saying they have a "central tendency" to be less assertive and that they suffer from anxiety and that these are inherent reasons (he said they were "biological") for them not having higher salaries than men nor having more women working in leadership positions at Google and tech firms in general.

When most people use "average" they mean the majority of a particular group. Even mathematically an average is "the middle" or a "typical" number that is represented more than the high or low figure.
Another software engineer who used to work for Google, Kelly Ellis, says some women who still work at the company stayed home on Monday because the memo made them "uncomfortable going back to work."

Google Reportedly Fires Employee Who Slammed Diversity Efforts : The Two-Way : NPR

Above quote from NPR source speaks volumes to me about this subject. I can't imagine doing this, but I'm not "average" and wouldn't let some memo make me "uncomfortable" much less stay home from work. Such BS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:13 AM
 
16,694 posts, read 8,635,470 times
Reputation: 4687
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
If you read that thing, he starts off sounding somewhat reasonable, but by the end his RWNJ whackiness is showing. Don't blame Google for deleting him, this is really disruptive.
Please point out where RWNJ whackines are.

I didn't know truth is now considered RWNJ whackines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:13 AM
 
9,834 posts, read 5,715,842 times
Reputation: 9736
What a mess. What ever happened to just hiring the best people for the job and promoting based on performance....

Problems for women tend to be with specific men's attitudes not institutional. This guy isn't wrong but how does he treat his female colleagues?... I have had male colleagues treading softly because they apparently view females as anxiety prone/soft which I am not - it was another female employee who freaked out over every criticism. I don't appreciate the stereotype or that the distinction was not made between myself and the other woman, since we all worked closely together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
3,460 posts, read 2,273,113 times
Reputation: 3499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Google, Amazon, Yahoo, MSN, etc. All far left, radical, social justice warrior companies. I won't buy anything from them. Too liberal/progressive, and intolerant of other views. No thanks.
I think they'll survive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:19 AM
 
14,375 posts, read 7,085,168 times
Reputation: 7422
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Another software engineer who used to work for Google, Kelly Ellis, says some women who still work at the company stayed home on Monday because the memo made them "uncomfortable going back to work."

Google Reportedly Fires Employee Who Slammed Diversity Efforts : The Two-Way : NPR

Above quote from NPR source speaks volumes to me about this subject. I can't imagine doing this, but I'm not "average" and wouldn't let some memo make me "uncomfortable" much less stay home from work. Such BS.
On the bold, me either.

My grandmother was one of the first high ranking black female directors in the company she worked at. She endured a lot of racism and sexism (this was in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s). And she taught me that at work if people try to intimidate you based on anything like race or gender, that you show up and beat them at their own game. Never show weakness to anyone trying to bully you.

It's one of the reasons why I don't get this whole bullying thing today or buy into the idea of a "safe space." There is no such thing as a "safe space" IMO. Conflict always occurs. You take the high road and "get" the offending party in a legal, non-violent way and never let them diminish your productivity at work especially.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:21 AM
 
5,682 posts, read 1,712,156 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
How so?

For contributing to a hostile work environment?

Protecting his right to make others uncomfortable?

C'mon now.
Would Google fire a woman for commenting on the diversity policy? Obviously not as we can see from all the internal responses to this incident. Different standards for different sexes is illegal sex discrimination.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:23 AM
 
14,375 posts, read 7,085,168 times
Reputation: 7422
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
What a mess. What ever happened to just hiring the best people for the job and promoting based on performance....

Problems for women tend to be with specific men's attitudes not institutional. This guy isn't wrong but how does he treat his female colleagues?... I have had male colleagues treading softly because they apparently view females as anxiety prone/soft which I am not - it was another female employee who freaked out over every criticism. I don't appreciate the stereotype or that the distinction was not made between myself and the other woman, since we all worked closely together.
I think the bold was the reason for his being terminated. If he truly believes that "the average woman" is all those things he cited, then he opens up Google to a lot of discrimination suits by female staff.

As a woman, I honestly do believe that men are also prone to anxiety and are rather sensitive. They just may not show it in your face. But a woman who is emotional usually gets over whatever it is that got her emotional and will move on and do her best to do better. I do feel men and women are different biologically (of course!) but both genders are prone to anxiety. We just show that anxiety in different ways. I also do feel that women are assertive, it is just that oftentimes women are overly criticized for being assertive and some women will bend to the will of the criticizers and change their tone/behavior/actions to fit in with more of a docile "lady like" role. Honestly though, I don't see this often in the workplace today. But my line of work is not overly male dominated like the technology industry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2017, 09:24 AM
 
16,694 posts, read 8,635,470 times
Reputation: 4687
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Another software engineer who used to work for Google, Kelly Ellis, says some women who still work at the company stayed home on Monday because the memo made them "uncomfortable going back to work."

Google Reportedly Fires Employee Who Slammed Diversity Efforts : The Two-Way : NPR

Above quote from NPR source speaks volumes to me about this subject. I can't imagine doing this, but I'm not "average" and wouldn't let some memo make me "uncomfortable" much less stay home from work. Such BS.
"Another software engineer who used to work for Google, Kelly Ellis, says some women who still work at the company stayed home on Monday because the memo made them "uncomfortable going back to work.""

LOL!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top