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1. Unless you are extremely familiar with the scientific literature, you would be wise NOT to casually attribute differences in human characteristics (like anxiety, empathy) to biological factors. To do so, you risk exposing your ignorance to the world. James Damore did just that in his rant. He cited Baron Cohen, among others, as basis for his memo. He promulgated provocative hypotheses as settled science and fact. If Damore had actually finished his PhD in systems biology rather than going ABD, he might have developed a more critical eye for literature review and demonstrated a more sophisticated and nuanced thought process. Ironically, even Baron Cohen (whom Damore cited) has said on multiple occasions that scientific inquiry into developmental differences between the sexes is NOT incompatible with advocating for diversity and equal opportunity.
2. It is his prerogative to misunderstand science. It is his prerogative to assume behavioral differences are rooted in sex. It is his prerogative to criticize the mission of his company based on his (very misguided) bias. And it is certainly his prerogative to violate the company’s code of conduct. However, he should be prepared to pay the price. And he did.
1. Unless you are extremely familiar with the scientific literature, you would be wise NOT to casually attribute differences in human characteristics (like anxiety, empathy) to biological factors. To do so, you risk exposing your ignorance to the world. James Damore did just that in his rant. He cited Baron Cohen, among others, as basis for his memo. He promulgated provocative hypotheses as settled science and fact. If Damore had actually finished his PhD in systems biology rather than going ABD, he might have developed a more critical eye for literature review and demonstrated a more sophisticated and nuanced thought process. Ironically, even Baron Cohen (whom Damore cited) has said on multiple occasions that scientific inquiry into developmental differences between the sexes is NOT incompatible with advocating for diversity and equal opportunity.
2. It is his prerogative to misunderstand science. It is his prerogative to assume behavioral differences are rooted in sex. It is his prerogative to criticize the mission of his company based on his (very misguided) bias. And it is certainly his prerogative to violate the company’s code of conduct. However, he should be prepared to pay the price. And he did.
Get over it.
You would have to be an idiot not to understand that anything affected by sex hormones is going to vary based on sex.
To claim people are wrong to attribute human characteristics to sex is just stupid and flies in the face of everything we already know about biology.
Think of it this way...what possible mechanism would be required to make different sexed organisms the same...and WHY would such a thing even exist?
Its ridiculous. This is what leftist ideology does - warps reality and renders those afflicted incapable of perceiving it.
At this point even when women band together and TELL people that they are different than men some people argue with them and say they are wrong. I don't know how much more we can bend reality before everything falls apart.
And that proves what, that women aren't fit to be firefighters? Sounds similar to the argument that since there aren't as many women software engineers as men there must be something about women that makes them unsuited for the job.
It proves that even without this height discrimination they are still not going to this job. What is your explanation for this?
And the quote from Florida is just an example for height reqs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy
It's serious and I have known several female firefighters who were perfectly suited to the job, of course not all women are suited to that work. Just like not all men are going to be MMA fighters
Discussing company policy =/= pontificating about how defective women are.
He NEVER went on about how "defective" women are. Good grief. He simply stated in what ways women may not be into certain areas than men. I guess according to you, a man saying men are physically stronger than women is him saying how "defective" women are.
As Noam Chomsky once observed, “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.”
But echo chambers also have to guard against dissent and opposition. Whether it’s in our homes, online or in our workplaces, a consensus is maintained by shaming people into conformity or excommunicating them if they persist in violating taboos. Public shaming serves not only to display the virtue of those doing the shaming but also warns others that the same punishment awaits them if they don’t conform.
In my document, I committed heresy against the Google creed by stating that not all disparities between men and women that we see in the world are the result of discriminatory treatment.
Steve Sailer adds:
"In other words, Damore defended Google’s behavior by dissenting from Google’s propaganda."
It proves that even without this height discrimination they are still not going to this job. What is your explanation for this?
And the quote from Florida is just an example for height reqs.
4.6%.
What exactly do you think you are proving there? Only 9.6% of registered nurses re male. Why are there so few men in nursing, the pay is excellent there's potential for advancement & it's easy to find a job with flexible hours. To follow your reasoning the lack of male registered nurses must mean that they are incapable of doing the job. As you can see that silliness cuts both ways.
In many fields it is though, not just tech and not just Google. I'll get to that later but it isn't uncommon at all that women do end up making less than men in the same role.
Fair point.
Which to be fair is because a female business writing professor told my Integrated Business Writing class when asked this question "Women (on a whole) don't negotiate pay." A woman is more likely to not combat a low-ball offer. There is some proof to this point. A Salary.Com article confirms this with a 16% gap between 46% of men who negotiate wages to 30% of women who negotiate. In a different take on the issue from a Huffington Post (now HuffPost) article states that when women do negotiate pay, they face a 5.5 times likelihood of being penalized for asking for a higher wage. A PayScale.Com article has a solution, know that women (and millennials on a whole) need to know that the pay gap (partially) exists due to not negotiating.
Which is possible, who truly knows.
Which is somewhat true. MOST women (I capitalized most for a reason) do not negotiate as does PayScale finds with Millennials like me. I haven't worked a real job where I have to truly negotiate my wage, it is a take it, or leave it system with all the jobs I've worked. Could be because Arizona is right to work and at will.
Personally, I'm very glad you responded to my '2cents', thanks & respect, much appreciated. I appreciate the identification of negotiating salary as one of the factors, & the insights into why men may negotiate more than women across the board.
There are, of course, other factors worth considering. One, often overlooked in the present day work environment, is the relatively recent phenomenon (& occurring slowly over the past 5 or 6 decades) of the increased reliance &/or necessity for the '2 paycheck per average household). In the past, the average Father was the 'breadwinner' for the family household, while the average Mother fulfilled the 'homemaker' role in the household.
In the present day, both genders are competing for the same 'breadwinner' positions. There are, of course, exceptions to these, & extenuating or corroborating reasons why these are the economic conditions (not being addressed here) with which we are all attempting to deal.
Perhaps an underlooked at factor in the current scenario is the fact that the coding type positions are often higher paid positions? In the modern age, the 'evidence' of value is often about how well one is paid to perform the job. One might have to look pretty far back to note when this was not necessarily the case, & perhaps each person's role or position or job ... was respected & valued:
Quote:
...Hunter-gatherers tend to have an egalitarian social ethos, although settled hunter-gatherers (for example, those inhabiting the Northwest Coast of North America) are an exception to this rule. Nearly all African hunter-gatherers are egalitarian, with women roughly as influential and powerful as men.
The egalitarianism typical of human hunters and gatherers is never total, but is striking when viewed in an evolutionary context. One of humanity's two closest primate relatives, chimpanzees, are anything but egalitarian, forming themselves into hierarchies that are often dominated by an alpha male. So great is the contrast with human hunter-gatherers that it is widely argued by palaeoanthropologists that resistance to being dominated was a key factor driving the evolutionary emergence of human consciousness, language, kinship and social organization.[13][14][15]
Anthropologists maintain that hunter/gatherers don't have permanent leaders; instead, the person taking the initiative at any one time depends on the task being performed.[16][17][18] In addition to social and economic equality in hunter-gatherer societies, there is often, though not always, sexual parity as well.[16] Hunter-gatherers are often grouped together based on kinship and band (or tribe) membership.[19] Postmarital residence among hunter-gatherers tends to be matrilocal, at least initially.[20] Young mothers can enjoy childcare support from their own mothers, who continue living nearby in the same camp.[21] The systems of kinship and descent among human hunter-gatherers were relatively flexible, although there is evidence that early human kinship in general tended to be matrilineal. ...
Many years ago when I was a young engineer. I was helping a female colleague with a problem. My boss pulled me into his room and told me to work on real problems and it's not my problem to help others who can't help themselves. Originally I thought that was just that situation but over time I worked with him I realized that he does stereotype his female staff. He doesn't expect them to exceed at their positions. It's pretty common in tech that we have staff meetings and we have real staff meetings.
Staff meetings are the ones to make everybody feel something was done and those include women. The ones where we meet to actually go over issues those women of the team aren't invited. I do sense that women in the team do feel being left out but I guess they know they are being discriminated but do nothing or say nothing because they have low expectations.
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