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Old 08-12-2017, 07:49 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,011,790 times
Reputation: 15645

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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
What never ceases to amaze me is the number of people who are not teachers, yet complaining about the poor qualify of schools. If they're complaining, then be a teacher and help make it better.
I'm not a mechanic or cook either but if I get a bad meal or my car is not fixed right and still I'm forced to pay then damn right I'll complain.
My $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ my right to complain.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:29 PM
 
30,166 posts, read 11,795,579 times
Reputation: 18687
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Petition was filed earlier today to halt the bill from taking effect + put the issue onto the ballot in 2018. I guess Arizona ain't that conservative after all.

Take that DeVos!

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/201...s-arizona.html

Why would anyone even be for this is appalling. It's an obvious give away for the wealthy in the name of "school choice".
You wonder where this group gets their money from. I would guess the DNC and Soros. I am sure they are extorting money from public school teachers for this too. How sad.

The wealthy can put their kids in any school they want. Vouchers give everyone else the chance to go to any school they want. The left wants to deny poor blacks and latinos the chance at a good primary education. If you are a homeowner you pay property taxes for your local schools. So to say the wealthy get free private school education with vouchers is a lie. They pay more into this regardless if they even have school age children.

Of course the left is going to fight this. What is more important than a better education for our kids is keeping the teachers unions in power. They are afraid if this succeeds the public school system will collapse.

We have tried decades of union control of education in public schools in this country. Its failed. Time for a better approach.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
I think Nevada started vouchers for anyone last year. I wonder how it worked out. I would love to see vouchers for anyone and do away with public schools once and for all.
The legislature refused to fund it, they diverted the money for it back to public schools and set up a 20 million dollar scholarship fund. Their voucher program was very much like Arizona's, give parents 5k which is not enough to pay for tuition which averages 9k in Nevada; thus ensuring that the private schools would not be tainted by the presence of poor people, they would continue to be the bastion of the upper middle class and wealthy.

Here's a link for you: https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/n...esa-surrender/

Last edited by 2sleepy; 08-12-2017 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
You wonder where this group gets their money from. I would guess the DNC and Soros. I am sure they are extorting money from public school teachers for this too. How sad.

The wealthy can put their kids in any school they want. Vouchers give everyone else the chance to go to any school they want. The left wants to deny poor blacks and latinos the chance at a good primary education.

Of course the left is going to fight this. What is more important than a better education for our kids is keeping the teachers unions in power. They are afraid if this succeeds the public school system will collapse.

We have tried decades of union control of education in public schools in this country. Its failed. Time for a better approach.
That's not true unless vouchers cover the entire cost of private school tuition and none of these do. If you have a family that makes 40k a year and they have three schools and after the voucher they still owe 4k per kid for tuition how the hell do you think they are going to be able to come up with 12k? This is nothing other than a big wet kiss to people whose kids are already attending private school.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:00 PM
 
30,166 posts, read 11,795,579 times
Reputation: 18687
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That's not true unless vouchers cover the entire cost of private school tuition and none of these do. If you have a family that makes 40k a year and they have three schools and after the voucher they still owe 4k per kid for tuition how the hell do you think they are going to be able to come up with 12k? This is nothing other than a big wet kiss to people whose kids are already attending private school.
Well the average cost of private school in az for elementary kids is $6,200K per year. Average including the very high end private schools. Meaning there are less pricey alternatives to paying $6,200.

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/arizona

Average non disabled student will get $4,400 towards a voucher. Some more.

So three kids about $5K a year. And if they shop around and with more private schools likely opening that might bring the number down to zero.

A nothing burger?

Yes.

Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 08-12-2017 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwinkelman View Post
Well the average cost of private school in az for elementary kids is $6,200K per year. Average including the very high end private schools. Meaning there are less pricey alternatives to paying $6,200.

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/arizona

Average non disabled student will get $4,400 towards a voucher. Some more.

So three kids about $5K a year. And if they shop around and with more private schools likely opening that might bring the number down to zero.

A nothing burger?

Yes.
My figures were for Nevada, I'm using data that was published two years ago in the Reno paper. But even with your figures, do you think most families can afford 5k a year on a 40k salary? I think you've lost touch with how little 40k is for a family of 5.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:03 AM
 
51,653 posts, read 25,819,464 times
Reputation: 37889
In Phoenix, "The average private school tuition is $7,980 for elementary schools and $17,097 for high schools."

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/arizona/phoenix

Now how can a $40K/year family with three kids afford this with $4,400 vouchers?

$3,580 times three kids would be a fourth of an already stretched-tight budget.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:06 AM
 
51,653 posts, read 25,819,464 times
Reputation: 37889
I can't even imagine how a $40K/year family could afford private high school.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,231,444 times
Reputation: 28324
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
In Phoenix, "The average private school tuition is $7,980 for elementary schools and $17,097 for high schools."

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/arizona/phoenix

Now how can a $40K/year family with three kids afford this with $4,400 vouchers?

$3,580 times three kids would be a fourth of an already stretched-tight budget.
Many of the Catholic (and I would surmise other) religious schools have tuition schedules based on ability to pay. The catholics, especially, are aggressive in encouraging diversity of both race and income.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,275,432 times
Reputation: 34059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Many of the Catholic (and I would surmise other) religious schools have tuition schedules based on ability to pay. The catholics, especially, are aggressive in encouraging diversity of both race and income.
Not in California. Catholic schools in California offer a reduced tuition if the student has a parent who is an active Catholic in the parish, tithes and volunteers in the Church. The discount is usually 10-20%. They offer a few "scholarships" but Catholic students are given priority. I just went through this with my grandson, we were going to help my son pay for his boy to attend Catholic elementary school
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