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Old 08-11-2017, 05:08 PM
 
8,048 posts, read 6,106,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itinerantlocal View Post
This is so stupid, from the time frame of travel to space radiation its just a waste of money. The gov. could not take care of NOLA when it flooded. Now it wants to put someone on a planet that has no air or may not even have water? This is dumb folly.
Man won't be stepping on any planet in our lifetimes. We can't get to the moon let alone a planet that comes within 34.58 million miles from us every 17 years. And another star system will never happen. We just don't have the speed needed or a way to bend space.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:16 PM
 
26,706 posts, read 20,076,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
It's a nice quote. I used to be pretty gung-ho for Mars habitation. I read the Mars Trilogy some years back. My thinking has evolved. I say we should design much more advanced robots than what we've sent so far. I say we should deploy a fleet of autonomous drones with high-def 360 3D cameras and LIDAR systems (so that humans safe on earth could have a virtual presence on Mars) along with high-functioning purpose-made AI research robots.

If the trip to Titan and Mars were roughly equidistant, I feel like we would only pay Mars about 20% the attention we'd lavish on Titan.
robots are nice, and we have learned much from those that have already been sent. but at some point we are going to have to put boots on the ground. we need to expand our technologies, especially if we are ever going to move out into the outer part of the solar system, or even into deep space. talk about challenges to overcome though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zortation View Post
Interesting thread. The people you'd normally think are ignorant of the facts are actually making cogent arguments and the people who think they're scientifically literate, are not.

Mars is a dead, poisonous, ball of rock that gets constant solar radiation. It has almost no atmosphere and no magnetosphere. The soil is literally poisonous and could never be used by humans for horticulture. To survive on that planet would mean that the people going there would have to engineer a massive underground habitat just to avoid getting their dna bombarded with solar radiation (see no magnetosphere). Otherwise, a trip to Mars would be a cruel death sentence.
while you are right, it is something that we do need to ultimately do. the human race is not going to forever remain on this planet. at some point we re going to have to move out into the stars, and expand our reach. and mars would be a good second step for that.

a base on mars means that mining the asteroid belt becomes more feasible, and launching missions to go deeper in the solar system and beyond get easier. and dont forget the new technologies that will need to be created, and the new mathematics that will need to be generated, and the expansion of our understanding of physics in general will greatly aid the human race.

we will have to learn to use airponics and hydroponics to grow crops. we are going to have to develop new and better energy sources, and new shielding technologies, and new materials.

we are also going to have to develop a new cooperation between all countries as well for this to move forward. we are going to be forced to give up old prejudices and old hatreds, and look forward to a new unified human race.

but we are also going to have to look back into our past as well and really understand things that happened as we overcome that past.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:16 PM
 
24,690 posts, read 10,870,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbdowndemocrats View Post
Do you enjoy the technology you have today?
If it wasn't for JFK and Apollo you would still be using number 2 pencil on a piece of paper solving solutions yourself there Einstein ...
ROFLMAO!!!

Do you really believe that?
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:20 PM
 
26,706 posts, read 20,076,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ1988 View Post
Man won't be stepping on any planet in our lifetimes. We can't get to the moon let alone a planet that comes within 34.58 million miles from us every 17 years. And another star system will never happen. We just don't have the speed needed or a way to bend space.
we have already been to the moon, mars is next. and while you may be right about man not stepping onto another spatial body in our lifetime, the mathematics for warp drive has already been done. as for another start system, with current technology, we can get spacecraft of a size needed to get humans to the closest start system in about 28 years, remember that alpha centauri is only four lights years away, and we only need to hit 20% the speed of light to get there in 28 years.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:21 PM
 
1,522 posts, read 676,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zortation View Post
Interesting thread. The people you'd normally think are ignorant of the facts are actually making cogent arguments and the people who think they're scientifically literate, are not.

Mars is a dead, poisonous, ball of rock that gets constant solar radiation. It has almost no atmosphere and no magnetosphere. The soil is literally poisonous and could never be used by humans for horticulture. To survive on that planet would mean that the people going there would have to engineer a massive underground habitat just to avoid getting their dna bombarded with solar radiation (see no magnetosphere). Otherwise, a trip to Mars would be a cruel death sentence.
Same could of been said about the moon but there is still science to be done and the problems are over stated and can be over come. We aren't looking at sending a colony, this is a manned mission with a finite life. Although a colony would likely come down the road when ready. Step by step.

Fact is there is a ton we can learn about visiting the other planets. The technology can be used for other pursuits like mining and despite everything we know about our solar system there is far more we can learn and it starts with baby steps.

I don't think anyone would argue today that finding the new world and never returning would of been a good idea. Yet the trips were perilous and had dubious economic value at the time considering the initial reasons for those trips were faster trade route.

We simply don't know what we'll find on Mars. A planet that likely was much more earth like. Rovers can only do so much work, boots on the ground will get a lot more science and understanding accomplished. The moon and mars will be a launching pad for deeper missions and who knows what dwells under the ice sheets of the moons or on Titan. One day we'll find out.

All of that carries far more value than anything we are currently spending money on. Things like Tax Cuts and Military spending are a waste comparatively. We are so obsessed with phallus shaped missiles and bombs while forcing our view points on the world like we are some special snow flakes. The funny thing is we are so paranoid about our world dominance and projection of power in the world that we are blinded to the fact that such obsession will ultimately be our downfall. We are so caught up in "MOAR MILITARY" and "TAX CUTS" that we can't even have a serious discussion about anything else. Mostly because said items have gotten us so far in the hole financially we have little else but our debt to point to as "success" from our splurging over the last 30 years.

So why not go to mars? We gain technology and the ability to go farther. This only opens up more avenues of exploiting of other worlds (better thre than here frankly) which in turn opens up opportunities to our people to grow and expand outside of the Earth. Something "bigly" important with how stupid we have become seemingly forgetting all the lessons taught to use not so long ago (Asia peninsula war, war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc).

We desperately need a new frontier. A new focus so we can unite as a human race and stop focusing on difference and working towards bettering ourselves as a species. Much better alternative than just threatening and actually killing each other over essentially nothing.

Few people have mentioned problems like radiation. Water and waste make excellent shields for radiation. We have to carry it anyway and as supplies and other items reduce, waste increases. We also can make safe areas like a capsule that is protective so when flares come up we can get the astronauts in there to protect them from larger bursts.

The bigger issue is actually landing safely since the atmosphere isn't thick enough for traditional capsule / parachutes. Something Space X is working on and hopefully can be used to further advance our capabilities.

Anyway, there are always challenges with new frontiers. There is always risk. The rewards are far greater than we could ever imagine though and it is imperative we continue to advance in space.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,124 posts, read 2,984,873 times
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The stars are humanity's destiny. There's no reason why we shouldn't strive to get one step closer in our lifetime.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:27 PM
 
20,031 posts, read 8,772,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
We'll see if Musk flies on that first Mars mission, himself.
I will almost guarantee you he won't.

Whats your point exactly?

Did JFK go on the first moon mission?
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:47 PM
 
24,929 posts, read 12,437,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Elon musk is looking at 6 years from now.
Musk has done some amazing things, but sticking to deadlines is not in his DNA.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,540 posts, read 4,304,253 times
Reputation: 3937
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
We desperately need a new frontier.
I honestly think the next frontier is the metaverse. A global virtual reality of infinite size and possibility. I think that's more doable and practical than space colonization.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:49 PM
 
8,048 posts, read 6,106,762 times
Reputation: 2735
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
we have already been to the moon, mars is next. and while you may be right about man not stepping onto another spatial body in our lifetime, the mathematics for warp drive has already been done. as for another start system, with current technology, we can get spacecraft of a size needed to get humans to the closest start system in about 28 years, remember that alpha centauri is only four lights years away, and we only need to hit 20% the speed of light to get there in 28 years.
That was 50 years ago joe and even then i am not sure no one stepped on the moon. 4.3 light years would take millions of years to reach with what we have. There will never be a warp drive clive.
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