Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wonder how many other people didn't even bother to read the article or consider the facts of this matter. As one who owned an employment agency, I had little choice but to consider and deal with the actual facts of these matters...
It's the NYT, any "facts" they provide are questionable and up for debate.
The one fact that is relevant here is if these (or any) workers are here illegally, the work they are doing doesn't matter, they need to be gone.
By any chance, have you seen who is "taking care of our loved ones?"
Before going back to college, two of our nieces worked as a CNA in several different assisted living, and memory care facilities.
Both are remarkable, dependable, hard-working, competent women. Neither could ever get full-time hours at any one place so they always worked at least two jobs.
And both told stories of co-workers who were undependable, had numerous issues in their own life that not only resulted in missed shifts but being in such emotional turmoil they were unable to be very caring to the elderly residents.
Both said that co-workers from other cultures were by far the most caring and dependable coworkers.
Increasing the pay and benefits would no doubt attract a more dependable pool of Americans. But who pays for that? Most families are already at their limit for care and now there's a push to diminish Medicaid funding.
Wow. Thanks for this comment! I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see other than all negatives when it comes to forners and/or senior care facilities...
I actually said the Democrats and Republicans are not lock step. Reading comprehension?
There have been numerous studies done and Libertarians score higher in critical thinking among other things. I know you want to feel you are at the top of the American Political food chain but I would also put members of the Green party ahead of both the Democrats and Republicans. Half the people don't see the need to vote so really less than half vote GOP or Democrat not 97%.
I understand Libertarian philosophy from being involved with the party, my understanding of the platform and issues, etc. I usually don't turn to cartoons, especially biased ones for factual information. If that is how you learn things good for you. Perhaps I will peruse Spongebob Squarepants and see if I can glean anything from it. It least its not blatantly anti libertarian so a little better than your cartoon suggestions.
But if you the current two party system is working great keep voting D. I am sure the DNC appreciates your loyalty.
I think we can do better than octogenarian career politicians on Capital Hill, K street. 20 trillion in debt, foreign wars that are near two decades, so called drug wars that have gone on even longer, a broken health care system, the patriot act and civil forfeiture laws, the immigration issues. I could go on and on.
I think we can do better. But I don't think we will do better as long as we have current two parties in power.
You think everything is fine. Good for you. The two parties need people like you to survive.
My bad. Not a comprehension issue but maybe one of reading too fast...
When making a claim like you do about Libertarians being better critical thinkers, you really should provide at least some substantiation for such a notion beyond just also claiming "numerous studies done." Perhaps a case of confirmation bias on your part? Curious, so I tried to find even one of those studies, and I found this instead.
Study Shows Smart Liberals, Conservatives, and Libertarians Are Easiest to Fool
I don't know how many times I have also emphasized the importance of the truth regardless the agenda, but no doubt we all struggle to fight being victims of confirmation bias. For example, your inability to consider what those cartoons represent rather than simply dismiss them because they are cartoons.
If your critical thinking is also what leads you to the conclusion I "think everything is fine," or that I am happy with our two-party political dilemma, then again you really need to think again! No doubt you haven't read much of the other threads/comments I have written about all that...
Amnesty can be used to negotiate. In exhange for amnesty, end birth right citizenship, immigration enforcement like e-verify for business or more strict, higher requirements and reduce number of h1b visas, no welfare for any illegal immigrant, and a host of other similar outstanding issues. Amnesty be enact only after all the above issues are resolved. For example, no amnesty until e-verity, birth citizenship ended, ect.
Nope. We have been promised things like this would be resolved after we granted amnesty before. Illegal immigrants are already not supposed to receive welfare, yet President BO had his illegal immigrant aunt doinf it while he was President.
It's mostly conservatives that are employed in blue collar industries such as manufacturing and agriculture.
Too many comments and misguided notions to address since the last time I looked at this thread...
Most seem to have either missed my prior comments about all this or simply dismiss them out of hand for reasons hard for me to understand, except perhaps the obvious political bias that keeps people from seeing the truth about these issues. I have written nothing but the truth about my experience as an employment agency in any case. Not going to repeat myself, but maybe simply look again at my comments #121 & #122.
Just might only add that challenge number one is properly assessing cause and effect when it comes to this issue of people working minimum wage jobs or having no job at all...
Heck, so many of these comments have been addressed already, might as well start at the beginning, or maybe comment #54. That immigrant workers are the reason for our unemployment woes, or minimum wage work, or the growing gap between rich and poor -- wrong. Maybe have a look at that video about a similar time when a similar ploy was used to rally the working man toward a similar sinister agenda, comment #85.
Sound and appropriate immigration policy for America is not to make forners out to be some sort of cancer that brings "murderers and rapists," refugees out to be terrorists, or all the above the reasons too many people aren't getting by at the bottom of the economic strata. About half of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency bill according to a recent study. This is NOT because of immigrants, legal or illegal.
Start with what truly is the source of these problems and what is not, and then we can move onto what is sound immigration policy. Sound, effective and appropriate immigration policy is NOT to be "pro-illegal!" If we can't even understand these simple fundamentals, going much further is simply a waste of time!
My bad. Not a comprehension issue but maybe one of reading too fast...
When making a claim like you do about Libertarians being better critical thinkers, you really should provide at least some substantiation for such a notion beyond just also claiming "numerous studies done." Perhaps a case of confirmation bias on your part? Curious, so I tried to find even one of those studies, and I found this instead.
I guess if we are going to link to reason.com (you know its a libertarian website) we might as well link this one:
It depends on how you define "conservative." The research shows classical liberals/libertarians are smartest of all.
And actually the Reason website is a great place to learn about libertarian ideology. Better than cartoons IMHO. But its different than the normal left right banter (like TRUMP IS A RACIST AND ORANGE or THE LEFT HAS ANTIFA SO THAT MEANS THE NEO NAZIS ARE NOT SO BAD AND HILLARY WAS A CRIMINAL AND MURDERER) it has substance not soundbites. Soundbites win votes better than substance does. But I think you would find a lot you would agree with on reason.
the above boils down to:
[Are conservatives simply less intelligent than liberals, and less able to obtain PhDs and faculty positions?] The evidence does not support this view… [published studies are mixed. Part of the complexity is that…] Social conservatism correlates with lower cognitive ability test scores, but economic conservatism correlates with higher scores (Iyer, Koleva, Graham, Ditto, & Haidt, 2012; Kemmelmeier 2008). [Libertarians are the political group with the highest IQ, yet they are underrepresented in the social sciences other than economics]
To boil each party down to one word:
Democrat = emotion
Republican = religion
Libertarian = reason
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 08-22-2017 at 10:50 AM..
Too many comments and misguided notions to address since the last time I looked at this thread...
Most seem to have either missed my prior comments about all this or simply dismiss them out of hand for reasons hard for me to understand, except perhaps the obvious political bias that keeps people from seeing the truth about these issues. I have written nothing but the truth about my experience as an employment agency in any case. Not going to repeat myself, but maybe simply look again at my comments #121 & #122.
Just might only add that challenge number one is properly assessing cause and effect when it comes to this issue of people working minimum wage jobs or having no job at all...
Heck, so many of these comments have been addressed already, might as well start at the beginning, or maybe comment #54. That immigrant workers are the reason for our unemployment woes, or minimum wage work, or the growing gap between rich and poor -- wrong. Maybe have a look at that video about a similar time when a similar ploy was used to rally the working man toward a similar sinister agenda, comment #85.
Sound and appropriate immigration policy for America is not to make forners out to be some sort of cancer that brings "murderers and rapists," refugees out to be terrorists, or all the above the reasons too many people aren't getting by at the bottom of the economic strata. About half of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency bill according to a recent study. This is NOT because of immigrants, legal or illegal.
Start with what truly is the source of these problems and what is not, and then we can move onto what is sound immigration policy. Sound, effective and appropriate immigration policy is NOT to be "pro-illegal!" If we can't even understand these simple fundamentals, going much further is simply a waste of time!
No one is saying immigrants are the sole reason for unemployment, or minimum wage or the gap between rich and poor. I'm not sure where your getting that. If you can not see that too much imported labor both legal visa holders and illegal workers compete with domestic labor, both skilled and unskilled and drive down wages your blind.
No one is making out foreigners out to be cancer but if you cant see the increased crime, murders, rapes, etc. committed by illegals your blind.
Your thread was based on the premise that we dont have enough immigrant low skilled workers and that Trumps immigration policy to limit visas and deport illegals workers was going to hurt the country.
The source of the problem of low wage low skilled vacant jobs was addressed. There are various thoughts on what is contributing to the tight labor market and why there is a shortage of people taking some of these jobs. The argument has been that flooding the country with even more low skilled immigrant workers willing to work for low wages and in poor working conditions is not the answer.
To boil each party down to one word:
Democrat = emotion
Republican = religion
Libertarian = reason
I'm awfully reluctant to play this "quien es mas" intelligent game, but I understand the inclination...
Obviously there many ways to glean some insight into political ideology, agenda and theory other than cartoons, but those "types" of Libertarians well represent many I have had the pleasure to exchange opinion with. Consider them as you will, or not. There's what to think about there too. Also obvious to me is that boiling each party down to one word is hardly the mark of intelligence...
Among the many ways to learn about all the various perspectives, I prefer to look up the demographics of people who support the various political parties, because that provides a bit better insight into who tends to support what, though not always so good at helping explain the why. Look at the demographics of Libertarians, Tea Party supporters and Republicans, and the overlaps are too obvious to ignore. Again, why they are essentially all in the same right-leaning GOP party.
"The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45."
It's a bit of a stretch to classify Libertarians as liberal generally speaking in any case, although both tend to be better educated.
Highly educated adults – particularly those who have attended graduate school – are far more likely than those with less education to take predominantly liberal positions across a range of political values. And these differences have increased over the past two decades.
No one is saying immigrants are the sole reason for unemployment, or minimum wage or the gap between rich and poor. I'm not sure where your getting that. If you can not see that too much imported labor both legal visa holders and illegal workers compete with domestic labor, both skilled and unskilled and drive down wages your blind.
No one is making out foreigners out to be cancer but if you cant see the increased crime, murders, rapes, etc. committed by illegals your blind.
Your thread was based on the premise that we dont have enough immigrant low skilled workers and that Trumps immigration policy to limit visas and deport illegals workers was going to hurt the country.
The source of the problem of low wage low skilled vacant jobs was addressed. There are various thoughts on what is contributing to the tight labor market and why there is a shortage of people taking some of these jobs. The argument has been that flooding the country with even more low skilled immigrant workers willing to work for low wages and in poor working conditions is not the answer.
I get the feeling there are many Americans who think that if immigrant labor is not the "sole" reason for all our problems, they are a significant reason, and this is probably where best to distinguish where lots of Americans do not agree -- the extent immigrant labor is the source of our problem(s). That notion also seem blind to you?
Help me if you can to also quantify the extent our problem with crime; murders, rapes, etc. is due to illegals. Will be much appreciated if rather than simply make statements and call me "blind," you please provide something other than your opinion without any substantiation.
My premise is not as you insist. My premise is that too many Americans (typically Trump supporters) have really no idea what the source of our problems truly are, the extent that immigrants (legal or illegal) are the cause, and/or what makes sense from an immigration policy and what does more harm than good when all is considered.
Again, if we can't get the fundamentals mutually understood in these respects, there is little point to go further in terms of what DOES make better sense.
I'd like to see the credentials that might prove these are the words of an employer who knows even a little something about hiring lots of people for jobs that essentially no one wants, not anyone who who wants full-time work at good pay with decent working conditions anyway (never mind any benefits). What is "BS" and what is opinion based on arm-chair distant opinion largely aligned with political bias over any real experience and knowledge about the subject?
And if I read another conservative describe the different opinion or viewpoint as "pro-illegal" I just might...
Right. What else or better can anyone expect in this forum?
Still, the patience required here would even test the Buddha...
Except you are pro-illegal. Like you are. You are bemoaning the fact that illegals aren't here to do the jobs they previously did before. Based strictly on a sign (which you failed to mention or notice was there before Trump became president) and an opinion piece in a lefty publication.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
