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Old 08-11-2017, 03:23 PM
 
26,738 posts, read 12,088,655 times
Reputation: 6802

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[quote=BicoastalAnn;49155729]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post

What are you arguing about exactly? I made no argument, either way, in my comment. The OP mentioned Trump's immigration policy, and he has one for both legal and illegal immigrants... so I didn't make an assumption based on the name "Trump" that the OP's message was one or the other. I didn't say Trump's policy is good or bad... just that he has A policy. Do you disagree with that?

So... when you say "Legal, permanent immigrants are not Americans aka U.S. citizens." you are basically saying anyone who comes to this country who is not born here is not "American." You also don't believe in "hyphenated Americans" so... what other conclusion can one make other than you don't believe anyone who is an Asian, Mexican, European, or any other ethnic group who comes to the US is going to be considered an "immigrant" and not an "American" even if they are legal or permanent.

I didn't lump anyone, so I don't know where you got that either.
BiCoastal,
Oh for God's sake! Both naturalized and native born are Americans aka U.S. citizens. Neither was mentioned. Legal permanent immigrants were! They aren't Americans aka U.S. citizens. Geez! I don't believe is hyphenating one's American citizenship by putting another country or continent in front of the word "American". I didn't say that people from other countries can't be or are not Americans if they hold citizenship papers. I said that liberals lump illegal and legals together and it's a known fact. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I'm done with this reading comprehension nonsense. Buh, bye! Please don't respond to me anymore.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:24 PM
 
2,333 posts, read 705,697 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
What is Trumps immigration policy that is causing legal immigrants to vacate health care jobs leaving a void in that profession. A help wanted sign (which I have never seen in a medical facility) means they are hiring, how many we dont know. I doubt it means we cant find any white Americans to fill all these vacant positions.

Who did trump refer to as being criminals.......illegal aliens coming from the Mexican border. He was not referring to legal immigrants. What problem is Trump and supporters trying to fix.......illegal immigration. And then quoting an article about a supposed shortage of low skilled, low paying jobs by a man with strong ties to Mexico.
Like you pointed out, the OP also talked about low skilled jobs. Trump does have a policy that would cause legal immigrants to stop coming just to take low skilled work. Yes, there is also a reference to illegal immigration. All these things made me think the OP was talking about both, so I didn't know why people felt it was all about illegal (like people asking why she let illegal healthcare workers take care of her family).

I think y'all are thinking I'm taking a position in relation to the OP's argument. All I said was, "I was wondering why people think this was about illegal immigration specifically?" as in... a genuine question, not a challenge or moral position.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:25 PM
 
2,333 posts, read 705,697 times
Reputation: 909
[quote=Oldglory;49155804]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn View Post

BiCoastal,
Oh for God's sake! Both naturalized and native born are Americans aka U.S. citizens. Neither was mentioned. Legal permanent immigrants were! They aren't Americans aka U.S. citizens. Geez! I don't believe is hyphenating one's American citizenship by putting another country or continent in front of the word "American". I didn't say that people from other countries can't be or are not Americans if they hold citizenship papers. I'm done with this reading comprehension nonsense. Buh, bye! Please don't respond to me anymore.
Do you get triggered in every thread you're in? Calm down, dude. Could be that I wasn't talking about you, yourself, and ONLY you in my earlier statement. Some people here have actually said they don't think naturalized immigrants are real Americans. That wasn't you? OK, cool, that may be why I didn't say it was YOU.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:56 AM
 
7,963 posts, read 1,589,794 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn View Post
Like you pointed out, the OP also talked about low skilled jobs. Trump does have a policy that would cause legal immigrants to stop coming just to take low skilled work. Yes, there is also a reference to illegal immigration. All these things made me think the OP was talking about both, so I didn't know why people felt it was all about illegal (like people asking why she let illegal healthcare workers take care of her family).

I think y'all are thinking I'm taking a position in relation to the OP's argument. All I said was, "I was wondering why people think this was about illegal immigration specifically?" as in... a genuine question, not a challenge or moral position.
After reading all the comments posted after I left this thread yesterday morning, it sure is clear why there is so much confusion, in particular with respect to what/how Trump supporters think versus people like me...

Let's see if I can help, though I'm always reluctant to make the effort after so much experience that has taught me that people just don't want to consider what doesn't fit their bias in these respects.

1) I am not a "she." I am an older white male, born of immigrant parents, somebody who used to own an employment agency that hired thousands of legal immigrants/workers (and/or Hispanic Americans) to fill minimum wage jobs.

2) Trump's immigration policies have impacted the access to LEGAL workers in America. Workers with previous H-2Bs, like almost all seasonal workers, could return without being counted against the legal limit, but not this summer. Congress didn’t pass a returning worker exemption so the number of visas available is not enough for all the employers to bring in their temporary work force.

3) Many commenting in this thread seem to think the equation is a simple one, that all an employer need do is raise the wage and American workers will fill these positions. Wrong. I provided at least one article quoting at least two employers who explain that assumption is wrong. I have also been one of those employers.

4) I am not for illegal ANYTHING (generally speaking), but the question of which policies are good vs bad, work vs don't, requires a hard look at both legal immigration and illegals. Many Trump supporters don't understand how the two are related. Not sure I need explain, because the connections are obvious, and again..., no one wants to understand what undermines their predisposed beliefs in these regards.

I could go on, but somebody give me a good reason...
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:58 PM
 
4,068 posts, read 3,815,157 times
Reputation: 2116
Raise the wages and people will take any job. Those illegals will work until they get a better job. That "care" industry hates to pay more than 9 bucks an hour.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:30 PM
 
17,901 posts, read 8,630,369 times
Reputation: 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
It's always the same old story with you guys. Lump together aliens with illegals. This discussion is about illegals and not legal aliens but you and others promoting illegals can't seem to grasp that the two are very different and don't belong in the same conversation.
You don't have a monopoly on knowing illegals either. I live in So Cal and know quite a few, see them everyday. I never said they didn't work hard did I? That's never been the argument so once again, you're making up your own narrative. I also show up to work every day and I'm not an illegal. Are you going to give me some kind of medal for that or do you need to be an illegal to get praised for coming to work everyday?
Fruits and vegetables are not rotting in the fields because there aren't enough people to pick them and if they were, they should just rot where they are. Farmers that can't make a living by hiring LEGAL workers, American or foreign need to go out of business and allow others to take over that can grow crops without exploiting workers. Last time I checked, there were fruits and vegetables of every kind and lots of them at the grocery store.
The entire world wants a better life. Why don't you tell that excuse to people from India who want to come here and work but have to wait in line and do it the legal way instead of sneaking over the border? What's your excuse for giving people south of the border the upper hand and a free pass while others obey our immigration laws. I'd really like to hear it.
What rotting produce. Allegations but no evidence.

All illegals must be removed.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:42 AM
 
7,963 posts, read 1,589,794 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
What rotting produce. Allegations but no evidence.

All illegals must be removed.
I will bet my bottom dollar you have done nothing to determine what truth or nonsense actually revolves around this issue...

I can easily Google for information about this labor challenge for farmers and other industries as well, but of course if the statistics, facts and/or information comes from a farming association or those closer to the issue, you will no doubt discard the information as "inadmissible" evidence, regardless how true and accurate it may be...

Again, the issue is not simply the presence of illegal workers and/or immigrant, migrant workers. The issue or challenge is to change the immigration policies so that the impact on our economy is positive not negative, so that the necessary labor can be hired while also avoiding a spike in prices, inflation, shortages and/or rotting produce.

Results of Trump's Immigration directives.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:13 AM
 
17,901 posts, read 8,630,369 times
Reputation: 6883
If convicts want to eat they work.

My concept.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:36 AM
 
7,963 posts, read 1,589,794 times
Reputation: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
If convicts want to eat they work.

My concept.
Come up with that all on your own? True with most people anyway. My compliments!
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
17,552 posts, read 18,613,597 times
Reputation: 18666
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
After reading all the comments posted after I left this thread yesterday morning, it sure is clear why there is so much confusion, in particular with respect to what/how Trump supporters think versus people like me...



2) Trump's immigration policies have impacted the access to LEGAL workers in America. Workers with previous H-2Bs, like almost all seasonal workers, could return without being counted against the legal limit, but not this summer. Congress didnít pass a returning worker exemption so the number of visas available is not enough for all the employers to bring in their temporary work force.

3) Many commenting in this thread seem to think the equation is a simple one, that all an employer need do is raise the wage and American workers will fill these positions. Wrong. I provided at least one article quoting at least two employers who explain that assumption is wrong. I have also been one of those employers.

4) I am not for illegal ANYTHING (generally speaking), but the question of which policies are good vs bad, work vs don't, requires a hard look at both legal immigration and illegals. Many Trump supporters don't understand how the two are related. Not sure I need explain, because the connections are obvious, and again..., no one wants to understand what undermines their predisposed beliefs in these regards.

I could go on, but somebody give me a good reason...
You are blaming Trumps immigration policies that are not even in effect. The issues began before Trump.
The tight labor market is causing wages to increase and we will now see if positions will be filled by legal workers.
Instead of thinking that allowing more immigrant workers in to fill positions lets concentrate on the internal problem. One, our welfare system that has been increasing benefits and decreasing requirements, making it easier to receive benefits thus making living on welfare comparable or better than working for minimum wage. These generous welfare packages and the removal of welfare to work have created mass dependency. This was under Obama.
Our schools systems need to go back to teaching basic skills and expand trades courses instead of focusing on tolerance, ethic studies and touchy feely crap. And ease up on the child labor laws. These laws make it difficult for teenagers to fill these low skill, low wage jobs.
Lets start taking care of our house and our people instead of sweeping the problem under the rug and bringing in even more labor to further drive down wages and keep people on welfare. The labor problem will correct itself if we cut off the honey tree and provide actual practical trades training and skills to our students to prepare them for the labor market.
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