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Old 08-13-2017, 06:14 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 5,082,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I did not underestimate the Chinese military. I said it was no match for the USA. It won't won't risk a head to head conformation with the US military. While the USA & USSR were spending vast sums for decades to build a 21st century military tech, Mao was sending China back to the stone ages. It is a long long way behind.

On the other hand, if it decides to fight a war with say, India, which seems very possible given the events of the past few weeks, then it's probably better matched.
You do know that Russia, aside from its nukes, is rapidly declining as a military power. It can't even build any ship bigger than 5000 tones because all of the heavy shipbuilding skills went away with Ukraine. It's living on the dead corpse of the ussr. The Chinese on the other hand can build ships of any size and they are rapidly rising in sophistication. The third Chinese carrier is supposed to be nuke powered with electro magnetic catapult. The Russians cannot hope to match Chinese capabilities in the decades ahead. China chooses not to invest heavily in nukes because they see nukes as of limited value and decided to follow the minimal deterrence strategy. From the collapse of the Soviet Union, I think their strategy is sound. We are trillions in debt, and our military spending (note not defense spending) is too huge. And we whine about the our huge deficit when we have 11 carrier battle group and sticking our noses in other people's business. People like you who beliege that military force is the only solution is very much part of the problem.

As for India, it needs to build some more toilets for its 600 million peasants who don't even have access to proper out-houses before it thinks about trying to be a military power and taking on china.
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,768 posts, read 1,575,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
[The US] military spending (note not defense spending) is too huge.
Its not, really.

The US spends a small amount of total GDP (3.3% in 2016) on defense. That figure is down from 8.4% in 1960. The Saudis spend a larger percentage of their GDP on defense, unless I am mistaken.

China spent 1.9% of its GDP on defense in 2016.
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:09 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 3,020,941 times
Reputation: 3271
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
China is irrelevant.

If the USA decides that a strike is needed on NK, it will happen regardless of China.

If China decides to get involved, it becomes a target as well. This isn't the 1950s. China's military is a paper tiger. It is no match for the USA.
What will happen to Walmart then??
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,044 posts, read 27,462,475 times
Reputation: 15953
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
You do know that Russia, aside from its nukes, is rapidly declining as a military power. It can't even build any ship bigger than 5000 tones because all of the heavy shipbuilding skills went away with Ukraine. It's living on the dead corpse of the ussr. The Chinese on the other hand can build ships of any size and they are rapidly rising in sophistication. The third Chinese carrier is supposed to be nuke powered with electro magnetic catapult. The Russians cannot hope to match Chinese capabilities in the decades ahead. China chooses not to invest heavily in nukes because they see nukes as of limited value and decided to follow the minimal deterrence strategy. From the collapse of the Soviet Union, I think their strategy is sound. We are trillions in debt, and our military spending (note not defense spending) is too huge. And we whine about the our huge deficit when we have 11 carrier battle group and sticking our noses in other people's business. People like you who beliege that military force is the only solution is very much part of the problem.

As for India, [b]it needs to build some more toilets for its 600 million peasants who don't even have access to proper out-houses before it thinks about trying to be a military power and taking on chin[/B]a.
Well, no one is suggesting China does not have a strong military, but the China military worship needs to stop. It is ridiculously embarrassing.

A war is usually fought on three conventional formats. Land, water and air. These three are inter-linked and interweaved.

Land

As we know China and India are the two largest army in the world. Namely, the first and third largest armies. So the outcome will be drastic. Innumerable personnel will die.

Water

China’s navy is expanding at a clip that India cannot match, but India’s sailors are highly competent. They have been operating an aircraft-carrier since the 1960s, whereas China is only now getting into the game. India fears China’s development of facilities at ports in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar—a so-called “string of pearls” around the ocean that bears India’s name; Mr Antony called the announcement in February that a Chinese company would run the Pakistani port of Gwadar a “matter of concern”. China sees a threat in India’s developing naval relationships with Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and, most of all, America. India now conducts more naval exercises with America than with any other country.

India’s navy has experience, geography and some powerful friends on its side.

Air

The part where India really lags behind China in terms of numbers is the number of aircraft possessed by their airforces and the vessels operated by their respective navies.

India is also going for mass upgradation of its aircrafts and has already initiated the process of procuring 126 latest fighter aircraft. The Sukhoi 30 MKI is being produced in India now and about 130-189 such aircrafts are to be built and inducted in the next 5 years.

Taking into consideration all these facts, although China has the power defeat India in a full fledged war, it will not be decisive and will result in losses equal at both sides.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-13-2017 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:42 AM
 
28,623 posts, read 18,677,825 times
Reputation: 30904
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Well, no one is suggesting China does not have a strong military, but the China military worship needs to stop. It is ridiculously embarrassing.

A war is usually fought on three conventional formats. Land, water and air. These three are inter-linked and interweaved.

Land

As we know China and India are the two largest army in the world. Namely, the first and third largest armies. So the outcome will be drastic. Innumerable personnel will die.
A land war between China and India will stalemate like the trench warfare of WWI. The Himalayas themselves are the natural trenches, and both sides will be able to defend all passages from their own sides with relative ease.

Quote:
Water

China’s navy is expanding at a clip that India cannot match, but India’s sailors are highly competent. They have been operating an aircraft-carrier since the 1960s, whereas China is only now getting into the game. India fears China’s development of facilities at ports in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar—a so-called “string of pearls” around the ocean that bears India’s name; Mr Antony called the announcement in February that a Chinese company would run the Pakistani port of Gwadar a “matter of concern”. China sees a threat in India’s developing naval relationships with Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and, most of all, America. India now conducts more naval exercises with America than with any other country.

India’s navy has experience, geography and some powerful friends on its side.

Air

The part where India really lags behind China in terms of numbers is the number of aircraft possessed by their airforces and the vessels operated by their respective navies.

India is also going for mass upgradation of its aircrafts and has already initiated the process of procuring 126 latest fighter aircraft. The Sukhoi 30 MKI is being produced in India now and about 130-189 such aircrafts are to be built and inducted in the next 5 years.

Taking into consideration all these facts, although China has the power defeat India in a full fledged war, but it will not be decisive and will result in losses equal at both sides.
I've long considered the Indian Air Force one of the top three or four in the world. One reason is because they train a heck of a lot--a heck of a lot. In the aspect of pilot training and logistical capability, they may be #2 or three in the world (Aussies are #1--Aussie pilots are danged scary-good...at least the ones I've worked with have been: "Did you see what the eff he did? You can't do that with an airplane! I don't believe he did that!"). We've said some of the same things about the Indian Air Force: "I can't believe they were able to do that!"

The real problem at sea is that China is playing the superpower game. For hundreds of years, China has seemingly not cared about the world, and they've kept their navy a "brown water" navy.

When China sailed a fleet into the Mediterranean, the Intelligence Community went to pucker-factor eight. That was the equivalent of Teddy Roosevelt's "Great White Fleet."

Politics and economics both abhor a vacuum, and the US has left a vacuum in Asia and Africa.

China is taking over the role of the US Navy as "protector of the world's economic waterways." It's building foreign bases. China is systematically developing not only a world-class Naval capability, but has also shown an intention of being a world-class naval power, not only in terms of armament but also in terms of political respect and reliability.

At some point in the relatively near future, Asia and Africa will begin to acquiesce to Chinese impositions of naval power--bases here, bases there--for the same reasons in the past that the world acquiesced to American impositions of power: Because it's in everyone's rational self-interest to let China ensure the waterways are safe.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,044 posts, read 27,462,475 times
Reputation: 15953
^^^^ Yeah, agreed!

Good post
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Upstate New York
206 posts, read 90,472 times
Reputation: 79
The US should nuke North Korea first. The NORKs clearly don't think the US has nukes, so we should strike first to show them who's boss.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:33 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 5,082,960 times
Reputation: 7993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmonburgher View Post
Its not, really.

The US spends a small amount of total GDP (3.3% in 2016) on defense. That figure is down from 8.4% in 1960. The Saudis spend a larger percentage of their GDP on defense, unless I am mistaken.

China spent 1.9% of its GDP on defense in 2016.
Seriously, what's 3.3% of 17 trillion? And go check out our budget deficit. Then check out our military spending. It's interesting you use the word "defense".....we dont need that much military for "defense". We are a global military thug and the same people who support American imperialism and hegemony are the same one who decry big government and whine about government deficit and government handout to the poor. They have no problem spending money on bombs and carpet bombing bombing foreign cities, but they have a lot of problems helping fellow Americans who are in need. Typical republican a*sholes.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:36 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 5,082,960 times
Reputation: 7993
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH86 View Post
The US should nuke North Korea first. The NORKs clearly don't think the US has nukes, so we should strike first to show them who's boss.
Why don't we send you over there as a good will envoy first to throw them off your great plan. Then we'll nuke them while you sweet talk fat kimmie with your charm. You'll be remembered as a great patriot in our history books. We'll name a square after you. Ok?
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:44 AM
 
5,781 posts, read 5,082,960 times
Reputation: 7993
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Well, no one is suggesting China does not have a strong military, but the China military worship needs to stop. It is ridiculously embarrassing.

A war is usually fought on three conventional formats. Land, water and air. These three are inter-linked and interweaved.

Land

As we know China and India are the two largest army in the world. Namely, the first and third largest armies. So the outcome will be drastic. Innumerable personnel will die.

Water

China’s navy is expanding at a clip that India cannot match, but India’s sailors are highly competent. They have been operating an aircraft-carrier since the 1960s, whereas China is only now getting into the game. India fears China’s development of facilities at ports in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar—a so-called “string of pearls” around the ocean that bears India’s name; Mr Antony called the announcement in February that a Chinese company would run the Pakistani port of Gwadar a “matter of concern”. China sees a threat in India’s developing naval relationships with Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and, most of all, America. India now conducts more naval exercises with America than with any other country.

India’s navy has experience, geography and some powerful friends on its side.

Air

The part where India really lags behind China in terms of numbers is the number of aircraft possessed by their airforces and the vessels operated by their respective navies.

India is also going for mass upgradation of its aircrafts and has already initiated the process of procuring 126 latest fighter aircraft. The Sukhoi 30 MKI is being produced in India now and about 130-189 such aircrafts are to be built and inducted in the next 5 years.

Taking into consideration all these facts, although China has the power defeat India in a full fledged war, it will not be decisive and will result in losses equal at both sides.
I only brought China's military because someone did not think the Chinese military was relevant in a Korean conflict. As for India, the current stalemate is on Chinese territory, not indian or on disputed land. The Indians are literally squatting on Chinese land and refuse to leave. China doesn't want a war with India, but for some reason, India is just aching for a fight. India is still smarting from its good arse whopping in 1962 and it wants to take revenge for what China did to it. My suggestion is that India stop its China fixation because the Chinese actually don't care very much about India. The Chinese sees the US and maybe Russia as their competitor, not India. Most Chinese think of out-houses, or the lack there of, and eating with one's hand (and wiping one's butt with the other) when they think about India.
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