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Tearing down of statues, while it may feel "orgasmic" in a completely iconoclastic, contrived social-political masturbatory sort of way, is nothing more than a statuary version of the 1933 Nazi German Student Union mass book burning.
Burning books written by authors you don't like, authors who espouse ideas you hate, creating stories and art you don't care for will NEVER make those ideas, art or stories go away.
Germany itself has made symbols of their National Socialist past illegal. Has this illegality of swastikas and the like made Nazism evaporate or even fade?
Nope.
Attempting to re-write history, by way of violence, to fit incredibly narrow-minded and ephemeral "feelings" is about as childish and fascist as can be.
It will also be totally unsuccessful and a titanic waste of time.
Not one of us is perfect.
How ironic it is, that in the world today there are those that would judge any other by impossible measures of rationalistic and "relative" perfection, destroying any and all that don't meet this bogus standard.
True perfection is a religious concept. It cannot be achieved here on Earth, by any of us.
So, if you consider yourself perfect, sinless, pure and clean then go right ahead and judge others, past and present. Strike down the "Unjust", but be sure to look in the mirror while you're doing it.
PS
J.F. Kennedy was one of the best president the U.S. ever produced. But, he was a total lech, a complete womanizer.
He was a great man, in the sense of greatness that applies to men, to humans and not to Gods.
So Kennedy was NOT perfect. It would be stupid to suggest that he was. It's, well, one would think that it is, such a universally understood truth, that not one of us is perfect, that to continually wallow in the endless regurgitation of some "other" persons sins, imperfections is more of form of disgusting self-pity than any type of constructive criticism that we ALL can learn from.
The world will not respond to the demands for instantaneous satisfaction.
The past will not be made pure, the environment perfectly clean, all past crimes and horrors eradicated from all memory, all hate and stupidity wiped away by the end of the new-cycle, or the end of the last period on a Friday afternoon. We will NOT be able to party all weekend long "guilt" free, fooling ourselves into believing that we can save the world by the end of the semester.
.....But if ONLY the whole bloody world would just listen to ME!!!!.....
While the lumpen-proletarians in the classroom may whine and squeal about all crimes and sins of others, they'll never ever realize that THEY are EXACTLY like, have EXACTLY the SAME strengths, AND WEAKNESSES as ALL THE PEOPLE THEY LOVE TO HATE!
Why do they even bother TRYING to "learn"? A mind that is "Made up" cannot learn.
Last edited by Happy Cells; 08-26-2017 at 11:39 AM..
But I think we can all agree that it is better to arrest than to attack folks who are impeding traffic.
The march so violently interrupted by Fields did not have a permit. They were turning onto 4th street almost certainly heading back up to the pedestrian mall. Why were they on Water Street which was, I believe, open traffic when they could have gone directly to the pedestrian mall?
My take is that their chants of: "No these are OUR streets" was part of the desired image/intent. No idea of the relative percentages but in almost certain start contrast to the U R, a number of counter-protestors were local.
Here's a blog entry. Admittedly, the writing is a bit purple but I've no reason to suspect blatant inaccuracy:
I just now read thru the entire blog. Interesting how they present the Antifa. No argument that it's written in advocacy, tho still far less strident than many of the posters on this blog.
Regardless, in the atmosphere of C'ville that day, a pattern of stepping forward to protect those under attack seems to have been ONE of the various behavioral patterns in play.
Sure we all have different takes on an action often influenced by our political beliefs and past experiences. But in any court of law, the intent and mind of the perpetrators is relevant.
That applies to how one might view - the counter-protestor march on Water/4th street - Fields - and the guy who tapped his car.
Clergy does not have some special dispensation to break the law. They most certainly were breaking some law when they tried to bar entry of other American citizens to a public park. They were the provacateurs.
Charlottesville city/LEO are most to blame for not keeping the two groups apart as well as not ordering the clergy to disperse or cease blocking entry to the park and arresting them if they didn't.
And here's yet another example of a car being used against left-wing protestors. This happened AFTER Charlottesville. Impatient driver or driver giving leftists protestors what they "deserve" either for being on the streets OR for their beliefs? This was a vigil for a transgender woman.
Quote:
A dangerous moment during a street protest in St. Louis on Tuesday night: Protesters gathered around a car at an intersection, and the driver eventually pushed through the pack, reports the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
Police say three people had minor injuries, though all declined medical attention. This tweeted image shows one person on the hood of the vehicle at one point, along with a woman directly in front of the car with her hands on the hood.
Clergy does not have some special dispensation to break the law. They most certainly were breaking some law when they tried to bar entry of other American citizens to a public park. They were the provacateurs.
Charlottesville city/LEO are most to blame for not keeping the two groups apart as well as not ordering the clergy to disperse or cease blocking entry to the park and arresting them if they didn't.
History is replete with those who break a current "law" when they object to a wrong. From the suffragettes to the Freedom Marches in the days of segregation. Where we can agree is that any kind of violence is wrong. Both morally and, practically, for in the end it's all too often an ineffectual tactic.
As for the C'ville/LEO (acronym ???) I have no opinion. Not enough information (personal, not really following MSM on this). But certainly the situation in Boston was handled better. No firearms. No backpacks. No guns.
I'm not fixated on anything. You're the one who keeps harping on it.
In any case, if it turns out that he either accelerated into the crowd or failed to brake in time due to someone attacking his car the definition of 2nd degree neither matters nor applies.
If you and others stop claiming that there must be intent for a murder 2 charge or conviction, I'd gladly leave it alone.
If it turns out a lot of different ways a lot of things now being discussed won't matter. If it turns out he told friends he intended kill someone that day 2nd degree murder wont apply ... murder 1 will.
You can "think" whatever you want, but your opinion isn't a legal matter.
One must be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to be convicted.
Fleeing a videoed attack doesn't establish guilt. On the contrary, it establishes reasonable doubt.
I think the videos prove Fields intentionally drove at a relatively high rate of speed straight into a crowd of pedestrians. That is indisputable. The tapped bumper happened while Fields' assault was already underway. That is also shown in the videos.
If you and others stop claiming that there must be intent for a murder 2 charge or conviction, I'd gladly leave it alone.
If it turns out a lot of different ways a lot of things now being discussed won't matter. If it turns out he told friends he intended kill someone that day 2nd degree murder wont apply ... murder 1 will.
There's also the Ford Fischer video cited by at least one promotor of conspiracy theories (sounds anti-government) that the poster swears is unalterable because its Livestream. Linked earlier in the thread.
EDITED TO GO FIND THE VIDEO LINK: HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePsK0dpyu4g.
The license plate is fuzzy but clearly shown. I can't make it out though no doubt enhanced techs could. I'm assuming the intent of the poster is to maintain Fields is a government plant but I tend to lose interest at that point so who knows.
It shows Fields' car (can't remember offhand if the license place is clear) on Water St. about 7 minutes before the attack. The protestors hadn't yet reached Water St. He circled back then encountered the protestors coming up 4th street.
If true, the charge *could* be adjusted upward. Not sure when the line is crossed to premeditated. (Don't want to wade into the charge disagreements but I'm going under the assumption that 1st degree is premeditated, 2nd degree intent but not pre-planned, with *one* of the various manslaughters charges deliberate killing but on impulse under duress.)
Curious, given the conspiracy theories (that include why the minivan was there, seemingly without a driver) WHY the protestors ended up on 4th street, I did a quick google and came across this account by a former UVA grad and C'ville resident who describes herself as a Buddhist who did not want to even be in the presence of possible violence but still felt it important to stand against what she felt was wrong:
Quote:
I had joined a group marching from the Downtown Mall—a group of anti-fascists and Black Lives Matter folks—and we were silently marching by Friendship Court, a low-income-housing area where many minorities live. We’d heard that the fascists had already gone there and tried to cause problems. So we marched by, in silence. We didn’t want to make a scene. We just wanted to be in solidarity with the people there. Then we saw a bunch of other counter-protesters coming down Second Street. Another diverse group. We all were cheering together, marching together, clapping and chanting. There was no one else around. No standoff. We were just marching, being peaceful. This was around two o’clock, I guess. It was a very exuberant feeling of solidarity, community, all that.
“We decided to turn up Fourth Street, to go back to the Downtown Mall. I was with five people, all locals. I was kind of on the edge of this one-lane road, an area that was mostly blocked off. I still don’t know how a car got down there. Then I heard shouts and this sound of, like, hitting, like, traffic cones. This hollow, horrible sound. Like dominoes. And I saw bodies fly up into the air.
You've been misinformed. History gets changed all the time.
Generally, history is written by the winners, so you start from there.
For an example of how folks try to change history, we need go no farther than the Civil War.
Now, the Civil War is nothing to be proud of. Americans levied war against the nation, the very definition of treason.
The Civil War was fought so that southern slave owners could continue owning slaves, something that had already been outlawed in most civilized places. Also nothing to be proud of.
It was an brutal war fought defending an evil system.
Yet the continual fanning of the noble-war, south-shall-rise-again mythology have been successful, at least in part, to rewrite history.
Look at all the yammering about losing history if we lose the statues.
The idea that we will ever forget the Civil War is ludicrous. It's a soul wound we will carry forever.
Losing the statues means we lose the version of history that some prefer.
Too bad.
Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 08-26-2017 at 12:50 PM..
History is replete with those who break a current "law" when they object to a wrong. From the suffragettes to the Freedom Marches in the days of segregation. Where we can agree is that any kind of violence is wrong. Both morally and, practically, for in the end it's all too often an ineffectual tactic.
As for the C'ville/LEO (acronym ???) I have no opinion. Not enough information (personal, not really following MSM on this). But certainly the situation in Boston was handled better. No firearms. No backpacks. No guns.
Yes, commonly known as civil disobedience. Most of those causes that you mentioned did not also involve violating the rights of other American citizens no matter how much you may dislike them. And, those engaged in civil disobedience understood they were breaking the existing law and might/probably would be arrested.
Its not just violence that is wrong........its also violating the civil/constitutional rights of other citizens that is also wrong.
Those clergy in your previous post don't seem to have one iota of a clue that what they did was both illegal and violating the rights of other Americans. Very strange and actually very scary and un-American. Not something I would expect from clergy.
LEO = law enforcement officers.
You may have no opinion on them, but to me it is looking more and more like they intentionally stood down in order to shut down the protest which they were previously unable to shut down and ordered by a federal court to allow.
I think the videos prove Fields intentionally drove at a relatively high rate of speed straight into a crowd of pedestrians.
They do not prove that, and that has already been discussed at length.
Wait for the trial. Way too many of you are assuming way too much.
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