Its wrong to hate but not wrong to reason racial inferiority? (stats, Brown)
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You know what keeps people down? Poverty. You know what the main causes of poverty are? Drugs, out of wedlock births without a 2 parent household, and lack of education.
The current black culture is why so many are poor. Not racism. Not that their ancestors 160 yrs ago may have been slaves. When your culture glorifies gangbanger activity, drugs, violence, anti authority, and single parenthood, you are not going to be successful as a culture. When your culture calls successful members of your race Uncle Toms (like they do to Thomas Sowell for example) because they are successful, value education, hard work and speaking properly you will not be successful. It's not racist to acknowledge that.
Are you a smart person? Do you gather all the fact and then deduce the best possible explanation from those facts without bias?
You said poverty keeps people down....right? Ok....what is the greatest cause or predictor of poverty? Can't figure it out? Let me tell you then. Answer: BEING BORN INTO POVERTY. Hence, what if my grand parents were rendered poor because blacks were not allowed equal opportunity in Mississippi in 1920? That means what......THAT MY PARENTS WERE BORN into poverty, as a result of the racism against their parents....right? Remember, YOU said poverty is the biggest problem. Thus, even ignoring any racism against my parents when they were born, they were already victimized by the racism against their parents. Thus, by 1940's by parents had a poor upbringing yet, experienced their own racism against blacks, which also stunted their economic opportunity.....
Long story short.....higher rates of poverty is a generational legacy among blacks which resulted from the consequence of slavery and oppression.
There is nothing racist about saying blacks were harmed by liberal social policies. They were given the message that they are victims and can't succeed on their own.
Many other minority groups came here and faced very difficult challenges, and most managed to be successful. What about the Jews, who were despised and persecuted horribly? Instead of deciding they were victims who needed welfare, they worked hard and became educated.
There are plenty of white people who never try hard, and always need help from others. But whites are not taught that they are victims and need help, so they are MORE likely to help themselves.
Blacks by and large do not believe we are victims. You and others believe that.
That is the issue at hand. You believing we are victims is a symptom of you believing we are an inferior race.
I am black. I was raised in a black family. I was never taught that I was a victim. I was taught I am a survivor and strong and can do anything. Most black children are taught the same. It is non-blacks who think that just because we revere the strength and perseverance of our ancestors in the face of extreme oppression, that we believe we are victims.
Now that doesn't mean that there is no racism directed at black Americans. Because there is. But us knowing that racism is still in this country doesn't mean that we see ourselves as victims. We see ourselves as survivors, like our ancestors were survivors.
I'm a Democrat and I blame much of this on liberals and the fact that white people are constantly getting mixed messages.
Look through these threads and you'll see various posts from some black members who say white people don't understand what they have to put up with in a racist world, etc. Yet someone will start a thread for black people asking about racism, and those same black posters say they don't experience racism.
You'll see posts from black members stating many white people are misinformed thinking all black people live in ghetto's (which is true...some white posters are ignorant and think that) and several will state they're college educated, have good jobs, live in middle-class neighborhoods, send their kids to good schools, sent their kids to college and now their kids have good jobs, etc. Also true.
Yet some of those same posters will post that they're economically behind and have suffered because of it.
Some will boast that black women are the most educated group in America today - a claim I've finally looked into and found to be false, yet those same posters are for lowering of standards and requirements for black people.
Mixed messages abound.
Now, on to the liberals who have done minority groups no favors.
It's the liberals who have done much to keep black people enslaved. They're the ones constantly saying, 'but they need help....' It's the liberals wanting to do away with tests because they're unfair to minorities. It's the liberals who demand requirements be lowered for minorities otherwise the deck is stacked against them.
What they're saying is you're too stupid to make it. WTH kind of message does that give any group?
White people have been hearing this message for how long? And what kind of impression do you think that gives white people?
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot embrace lower requirements because they're unfair, yet bemoan the impression that gives people.
I'd be screaming bloody damn murder if someone targeted a group I was part of, in that way.
Liberals do NOTHING to get people trained, out of poverty, off drugs, out of social programs, etc. It was the liberals who stated it was racist not to embrace ebonics. What was the impact of that? The impact was that even if college educated, some people have reduced the odds of their being hired because they cannot speak English properly. Blame the liberals, don't blame the conservatives for that.
It was the liberals who told black people to embrace their African roots and name your children anything you'd like. What was the impact of that? Even black people I know who are hiring say they'll hire a 'Morgan' over a name they have no interest in having to learn how to say or spell. So the end result is - people have reduced the odds of their being hired.
Right or wrong, this is what's going on in the real world and you want to blame white people and / or Conservatives.
Until you wake up and figure out what's really going on, nothing is going to change.
Oh Whitey! Extra caffeine in your Starbucks this morning?
A lot of truth in here hence the responses. Not sure how much I'll be able to refute from those responses. I am a lazy ghetto minority kid after all.
Are you a smart person? Do you gather all the fact and then deduce the best possible explanation from those facts without bias?
You said poverty keeps people down....right? Ok....what is the greatest cause or predictor of poverty? Can't figure it out? Let me tell you then. Answer: BEING BORN INTO POVERTY. Hence, what if my grand parents were rendered poor because blacks were not allowed equal opportunity in Mississippi in 1920? That means what......THAT MY PARENTS WERE BORN into poverty, as a result of the racism against their parents....right? Remember, YOU said poverty is the biggest problem. Thus, even ignoring any racism against my parents when they were born, they were already victimized by the racism against their parents. Thus, by 1940's by parents had a poor upbringing yet, experienced their own racism against blacks, which also stunted their economic opportunity.....
Long story short.....higher rates of poverty is a generational legacy among blacks which resulted from the consequence of slavery and oppression.
Will note I also agree with the bold and I agree with the OP that people like to overlook this.
I'll also state that I personally don't even view slavery itself to have been all that detrimental to the current economic statistics of black Americans in regards to poverty rates and education achievement.
I believe that if Reconstruction had continued and blacks had had their rights protected after the Civil War, that no Jim Crow laws were enacted, no discriminatory housing policies in northern/western states, that if blacks had been allowed to fully participate in the "American dream" per se, that we would not have the economic statistics or educational statistics that the demographic has today because our path would have been similar to other lowly demographics in regards to becoming able to rise out of poverty within 3-4 generations.
The racist policies of the 20th century and especially those regarding housing and educational discrimination are directly to blame for low economic and educational statistics of black Americans today. Full participation in our society was not allowed nationwide for blacks until the late 1970s/early1980s when housing discrimination ended. It is amazing to me that within these past 40 some odd years that educational achievement has increased so much. Economics is more difficult due to the legacy of housing discrimination though and that, I honestly don't feel will improve much over the next 20 some odd years.
I agree it is not OOW births that is to blame. It was economic and education discrimination. I have also frequently stated on this forum that I am the first generation of blacks in my family that was actually born "free" from discriminatory laws. My generation in my family and those younger are the most educated and make the most money. That is not a coincidence, my parents and grandparents and great grandparents were not less intelligent or hardworking - I'd argue that they were much more hardworking and intelligent even than I am. They just were not allowed to live where they wanted and to work in places that reflected their educational and intellectual qualifications.
You don't think any of these have anything to do with historical segregation policies that barred black people from owning property so they could live in good neighborhoods, send their kids to good schools, live where their children would be safe? Nothing to do with young black men arrested in greater numbers for lesser crime than white men and jailed in more numbers? discrimination in hiring? prevented from voting by nefarious means and threats? that such inhuman segregation can be demoralizing and make people lose hope? and do you think black people should just shake off their history, pull themselves by their boot straps even if they have no boots, and not demand that their lives matter too when they are being gunned down, male, female, children no matter, simply for being black, and just get ON?
Do you think?
The fact of the matter is that the percentage of black single parent households have TRIPLED since 1960 - as segregation died.
Single parent households even if you factor in race, socio-economic status, and location are more likelt to have high school drop outs, kids who commit violence, be in poverty as adults, suffer depression, and be a dead beat dad themself etc....
Here's my take with this, and people who use this argument.
You say kids should live with both parents but often support longer prison sentences, harsh sentencing for incarceration...when it's been quite clear that incarceration destroyed the fabric of many black communities through a phony War On Drugs.
And it's also been proven that whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates, but we know who is more likely to be locked away for selling or using drugs.
You want crime to stop in inner cities, but don't want more funding for summer employment, programs that help people find jobs, etc.
I am for experimenting with legalizing drugs so non-violent offenders do not get locked up.
However, the single parent rate in black households was growing rapidly well before the "war on drugs" and based on the sheer numbers and facts only plays a minimal amount in why most black kids grow up living with 1 parent.
Secondly, I never said I was opposed to jobs programs in the inner city. Are you confused as to who you are talking to?
What do you think about constantly being told that the world is stacked against you, more of you need to get in STEM as a civil rights issue, but we should lower STEM requirements as a Civil Rights issue, etc... How hard would you try if you constantly got messages that you aren't good enough for current standards and the deck was stacked against you anyways?
Blacks are not inferior, but racism can't explain their inferior social condition. Many people of non-white races came to the US and succeeded in spite of racism.
The only possible explanation is that liberal social policies, such as welfare, prevented many blacks from succeeding.
on the black. How can racism not explain an inferior social position when black Americans were not allowed to live where they wanted, were not allowed to work certain jobs, were not allowed to get an education, etc., for over 100 years after slavery ended....
I think you are kidding yourself. The ideas that liberals keep blacks down is ridiculous. Racism in America was a concerted oppression that denied blacks access to institutions that would lead to better social outcomes on a rather large scale. Racism and oppression are directly responsible for social conditions today, especially the racism from the WW2 era forward - the "modern" era.
Will note I also agree with the bold and I agree with the OP that people like to overlook this.
I'll also state that I personally don't even view slavery itself to have been all that detrimental to the current economic statistics of black Americans in regards to poverty rates and education achievement.
I believe that if Reconstruction had continued and blacks had had their rights protected after the Civil War, that no Jim Crow laws were enacted, no discriminatory housing policies in northern/western states, that if blacks had been allowed to fully participate in the "American dream" per se, that we would not have the economic statistics or educational statistics that the demographic has today because our path would have been similar to other lowly demographics in regards to becoming able to rise out of poverty within 3-4 generations.
The racist policies of the 20th century and especially those regarding housing and educational discrimination are directly to blame for low economic and educational statistics of black Americans today. Full participation in our society was not allowed nationwide for blacks until the late 1970s/early1980s when housing discrimination ended. It is amazing to me that within these past 40 some odd years that educational achievement has increased so much. Economics is more difficult due to the legacy of housing discrimination though and that, I honestly don't feel will improve much over the next 20 some odd years.
I agree it is not OOW births that is to blame. It was economic and education discrimination. I have also frequently stated on this forum that I am the first generation of blacks in my family that was actually born "free" from discriminatory laws. My generation in my family and those younger are the most educated and make the most money. That is not a coincidence, my parents and grandparents and great grandparents were not less intelligent or hardworking - I'd argue that they were much more hardworking and intelligent even than I am. They just were not allowed to live where they wanted and to work in places that reflected their educational and intellectual qualifications.
I appreciate your rational posts and agree with the bold especially. The insult flinging on both sides of this issue cause people like me to just tune out because it seems too difficult to get beyond the noise. Thank you.
Is America really that bad? Being black in America is like being a Jew in Auschwitz or in the Twin Towers on 9-11?!?! Are you filled with rage and hate that clouds your thinking?
Why do you despise personal responsibility so much?
There was a study where conservatives when they messed up in their own life they were more likely to blame their own actions and decisions. Liberals on the other hand were more likely to blame others, society, institutions, etc.
In all honesty, don't we need a little bit of both? Personal responsibility is huge in finding success, but liberal finger pointing can be necessary to fix legitimate wrongs and reform society. We need a balance.
Is it possible to not think someone as an individual is "inferior," but that they made some choices in their life environment/culture that led them either to success or failure?
that study is bogus. conservatives blame the media, liberals, PC, SJW's, etc.. all they do is blame other people.
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on the black. How can racism not explain an inferior social position when black Americans were not allowed to live where they wanted, were not allowed to work certain jobs, were not allowed to get an education, etc., for over 100 years after slavery ended....
