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Old 08-17-2017, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Stasis
15,823 posts, read 12,465,032 times
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What lofty ideals was Lee fighting for?
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:24 AM
 
10,920 posts, read 6,910,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
On Wednesday, President Donald Trump's personal lawyer John Dowd forwarded an email to associates that expressed support for the South's secession from the Union in the 1860s. Dowd sent this email to conservative journalists, government officials, and Dowd's friends, among others. The email originated from Jerome Almon, a right wing nutcase who runs websites that focus on conspiracy theories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/u...ille.html?_r=0

Subject line: "The Information that Validates President Trump on Charlottesville."

"You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington... Both men led rebellions "against the ruling government... There literally is no difference between the two men."

We are beginning to see how deep this goes. The gloves are off and Trump's mask has been pulled aside. Make no mistake, Trump has chosen a lawyer that reflects his core values.
I can't believe team Trump is doubling down on this. This is not a hill worth dying on...
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:27 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,178 posts, read 13,461,836 times
Reputation: 19482
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS02760 View Post
Trump Lawyer Forwards Email Claiming There ‘Literally Is No Difference’ Between Robert E. Lee and George Washington

By Margaret Hartmann@MargHartmann

Trump Lawyer Email: Generals Lee and Washington Are the Same
Given that Michael Cohen's own father survived the holocaust, I very much doubt he has much time for Neo-Nazis.

Michael D. Cohen (lawyer) - Wikipedia
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,186 posts, read 19,200,869 times
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Trump will learn one day not to go with the low bidder, especially when choosing a lawyer.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:39 AM
 
8,312 posts, read 3,927,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Get over it- don't you have more important concerns?
We should all be very, very, concerned about having an unstable narcissist as President, especially one that is giving nod-nod, wink-wink support to white supremacist and neo-Nazi causes. I don't think anyone is going to get "over it" any time soon.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,938,118 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMS02760 View Post
Trump Lawyer Forwards Email Claiming There ‘Literally Is No Difference’ Between Robert E. Lee and George Washington

By Margaret Hartmann@MargHartmann

Trump Lawyer Email: Generals Lee and Washington Are the Same
So in other words trumps lawyer is also an Idiot. Why does that not comes as a surprise.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,275,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
What lofty ideals was Lee fighting for?
Well turn it around and what lofty ideals was Washington fighting for? Because it wasn't the whole freedom, equality, and brotherhood that people seem to think. Indeed it can be argued that the Founders were little more than petulant children, who would have been speaking French had it not been for Great Britain, and was it really unfair to expect the colonies to pay their own way for their defense? Lets be honest, the US rebelled against Britain for levels of taxation that would make most modern Americans dance with glee.

I'd also like to draw attention to Somerset v. Stewart (Kings Bench 1772) effectively ending chattel slavery in the UK. You telling me that the rich colonists would not have concerns about that ruling resulting in ending slavery in the US before it was even a US?

Ultimately the only real known difference is that Washington won, and Lee lost
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,987 posts, read 2,112,089 times
Reputation: 3111
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
We should all be very, very, concerned about having an unstable narcissist as President, especially one that is giving nod-nod, wink-wink support to white supremacist and neo-Nazi causes. I don't think anyone is going to get "over it" any time soon.
I honestly do not believe Trump is a racist. We just had 8 years of a narcissist that preffered helping other countries over America. In todays PC world, if whites don't always give in to blacks, hispanics, gays, etc- then we are labeled "racists". People are way too sensitive and weak minded anymore.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:57 AM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,340,269 times
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Let's see, Washington was a patriot fighting for the U.S. and Lee was a traitor fighting against the U.S. Hmm, they sound like complete opposites.

You said this was Trump's lawyer? Is he gonna defend him in the Mueller investigation? Good luck with that!
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:08 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,330,678 times
Reputation: 7627
Well, in all fairness, Robert E Lee was a GREAT man - an absolutely brilliant tactician (perhaps the best America has EVER produced - STILL studied TODAY) and (by the standards of his time) a generally decent human being. He was NOT a "foaming at the mouth" racist (though he was - like nearly everyone of his generation - nevertheless racist). He actually sympathized with the north rather than the south and Lincoln badly wanted him to head up the union army. However, you have to remember that back then it was "THESE United States" rather than "THE United States" and folks generally (both in the north and the south) considered themselves to be "Virginians", "New Yorkers", etc. first and "Americans" second. It was a different mindset than we have today. In fact it was the Civil War itself that changed mindset (it's one of the major results of the Civil War).

So, when Virginia left the union and offered him a command, Lee reluctantly went with it. Lee's stature however was such that even among Union officers and enlisted men, Lee was still revered (even at the end of the war). That's kind of hard to understand with those days so far behind us now, but it's a fact.

There are a lot of Confederate leaders that were pretty bad people, but despite his flaws (and Lee DID have them) Lee is not one of them, He was a generally decent person. He actually thought slavery was evil but (again like the vast majority of folks of his day) thought it was the White Mans ordained task from God to "Civilize blacks" and that Blacks were not yet ready for freedom. It's a hard concept to understand today, but it was a common belief at the time.

“While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day,” Lee wrote.

Like many slaveholders, Lee believed that God ordained slavery to “civilize” the black race and that black people heavily benefited from the institution.

“The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially,” Lee wrote. “The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things.” = Robert E Lee


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/15/fa...ppose-slavery/

Washington IS the same as Lee in the sense that he too was a product of his time. BOTH were great men and it was right that we admire them AND understand and acknowledge their failings. Lee DID end up fighting for - what we consider today - the side of evil, but you have to understand that Lee - like virtually every American in those days - considered himself to be a citizen of his STATE first and an AMERICAN second. He didn't WANT to fight against the north (or even to leave the Union) but he felt he had to stay loyal to Virginia.
Times were different then, and so were attitudes.

Ken
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