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Old 08-18-2017, 02:38 PM
 
509 posts, read 126,603 times
Reputation: 877

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Why not , Muslim hate preachers get platforms .

 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,838 posts, read 1,430,646 times
Reputation: 2272
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Even the MSM has ruined the comedy that is the KKK/Nazi wing here in America.

I went to several KKK rallies in the 90s for pure entertainment value when they came to town.

15-20 of the nuts in their Halloween sheets with the grand POS on a megaphone spouting nonsense and a group of onlookers laughing and mocking them.

It was a good time. Now apparently this is the worst thing since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

This is how I think of the KKK too. More of a joke than anything. A bunch of poor old dudes from the middle of nowhere with missing teeth in robes? Nobody have taken them serioulsy in a while, and suddenly, we're "living in white supremacy/KKK land"?

"AHHH! NO!!!! THE KKK?!?! THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!"
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:41 PM
 
Location: NC
5,116 posts, read 1,807,334 times
Reputation: 2374
1st amendment covers all free speech, even speech you may not like. get over it.
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:42 PM
 
3,592 posts, read 7,690,260 times
Reputation: 2873
It isn't so much a free speech issue to me. "First Amendment" does not immediately negate what gives me pause to consider this issue clearly.

The United States has a few deeply-held beliefs that need to be addressed:

1) There is no political history to anything
2) Words and symbols have no power

The first is reactionary and causes immediate problems. For many, what happened in Charlottesville might as well have been completely spontaneous.

We have abolished the notion of spontaneous generation in all but political events.

The second is difficult to observe and hampered by the first. Free speech is a fundamental right here in the US, but no one ever acknowledges the consequences. Speech normalizes ideas. Actions, which are simply another form of speech, have consequences. But because we cannot directly relate Fox News to hate crimes, we seem to be content to believe that there is no relation at all.

Nevermind the years of words turning into belief.

Nevermind that words create political fictions.

Nevermind that political fictions snowball into reality.

Nevermind the heft of "reality", true or otherwise, creates a problem some nutjob who has watched Fox News believes he has the solution to solve. Breitbart, Stormfront, Redstate --> a kid shooting up a bible study in predominantly black church. Or someone choosing to "solve" political fictions through vehicular manslaughter.

Words have power and meaning. As such, free speech includes consequence. When no one is held responsible, the fictions do not stop and the gunman is but one of many; the KKK and neo-nazis start marching; radical things we fought against become normalized.

So the question isn't really "Should nazis be allowed free speech?" but rather, what is the consequence of their free speech? Who is going to pay? What are we allowing with this free speech to be used by these people?
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:45 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,194 posts, read 16,564,163 times
Reputation: 8847
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I can't see any redeeming qualities in these groups, and if they support murdering other groups of people they dislike, it seems like a proper reason to ban their right to speak publicly about this. People do not have the right to incite violence and murder in this country, so it would seem that this would apply to the KKK and neo Nazis. Thoughts?
Maybe we should ban your right to speak? Your speech is anti-American. It's offensive.

When we eliminate the right to freedom of speech, we're done as a free country. And who is going to decide whose speech should be banned? You?

Loretta Lynch already suggested prosecuting those who engage in "hate speech." Speaking out against radical Islam, or Islam in general ...is that "hate speech?" Who's going to decide?

Are you ready to arrest BLM for their "hate speech?" "Pigs in a blanket! Fry 'em like bacon!"

Words are not action. What kind of America do you want to live in? Not the America I learned about as a child.
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:46 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 5,665,010 times
Reputation: 6938
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I can't see any redeeming qualities in these groups, and if they support murdering other groups of people they dislike, it seems like a proper reason to ban their right to speak publicly about this. People do not have the right to incite violence and murder in this country, so it would seem that this would apply to the KKK and neo Nazis. Thoughts?
My thoughts are we have a Constitution that lays this all out and a HIGH Court that is the Ultimate Decider on these issues. I would trust no other "decider" to say who can and can not speak freely.

This is really fundamental stuff, I'm surprised you never learned this in school ..... even my 10 old grandson knows this.
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:46 PM
 
Location: SGV
24,647 posts, read 9,573,036 times
Reputation: 9691
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
your lack of panic and hysteria is a sure sign of a

Spoiler
RACIST!!!!1!!!
It's amazing. This is the same group that could only get 15-20 people to support them and the regular folks would come out of their office buildings downtown and just laugh at them then go back to work.

It really was a treat. What happened to those people? Everyone knew even as late as the early 90s the KKK was a shell of its former self and had no support.

How many marched for the rally last weekend? Police were expecting 2,000 to 6,000 folks.

Are you kidding me?

It ain't 1991 anymore. With media/technology and a national event across numerous groups and you got 2K to 6K?

For the love of God this is absurd.
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:48 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,231 posts, read 2,180,246 times
Reputation: 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
It isn't so much a free speech issue to me. "First Amendment" does not immediately negate what gives me pause to consider this issue clearly.

The United States has a few deeply-held beliefs that need to be addressed:

1) There is no political history to anything
2) Words and symbols have no power

The first is reactionary and causes immediate problems. For many, what happened in Charlottesville might as well have been completely spontaneous.

We have abolished the notion of spontaneous generation in all but political events.

The second is difficult to observe and hampered by the first. Free speech is a fundamental right here in the US, but no one ever acknowledges the consequences. Speech normalizes ideas. Actions, which are simply another form of speech, have consequences. But because we cannot directly relate Fox News to hate crimes, we seem to be content to believe that there is no relation at all.

Nevermind the years of words turning into belief.

Nevermind that words create political fictions.

Nevermind that political fictions snowball into reality.

Nevermind the heft of "reality", true or otherwise, creates a problem some nutjob who has watched Fox News believes he has the solution to solve. Breitbart, Stormfront, Redstate --> a kid shooting up a bible study in predominantly black church. Or someone choosing to "solve" political fictions through vehicular manslaughter.

Words have power and meaning. As such, free speech includes consequence. When no one is held responsible, the fictions do not stop and the gunman is but one of many; the KKK and neo-nazis start marching; radical things we fought against become normalized.

So the question isn't really "Should nazis be allowed free speech?" but rather, what is the consequence of their free speech? Who is going to pay? What are we allowing with this free speech to be used by these people?
Sticks and stones, sticks. And. Stones.
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:49 PM
 
12,403 posts, read 3,866,251 times
Reputation: 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
It isn't so much a free speech issue to me. "First Amendment" does not immediately negate what gives me pause to consider this issue clearly.

The United States has a few deeply-held beliefs that need to be addressed:

1) There is no political history to anything
2) Words and symbols have no power

The first is reactionary and causes immediate problems. For many, what happened in Charlottesville might as well have been completely spontaneous.

We have abolished the notion of spontaneous generation in all but political events.

The second is difficult to observe and hampered by the first. Free speech is a fundamental right here in the US, but no one ever acknowledges the consequences. Speech normalizes ideas. Actions, which are simply another form of speech, have consequences. But because we cannot directly relate Fox News to hate crimes, we seem to be content to believe that there is no relation at all.

Nevermind the years of words turning into belief.

Nevermind that words create political fictions.

Nevermind that political fictions snowball into reality.

Nevermind the heft of "reality", true or otherwise, creates a problem some nutjob who has watched Fox News believes he has the solution to solve. Breitbart, Stormfront, Redstate --> a kid shooting up a bible study in predominantly black church. Or someone choosing to "solve" political fictions through vehicular manslaughter.

Words have power and meaning. As such, free speech includes consequence. When no one is held responsible, the fictions do not stop and the gunman is but one of many; the KKK and neo-nazis start marching; radical things we fought against become normalized.

So the question isn't really "Should nazis be allowed free speech?" but rather, what is the consequence of their free speech? Who is going to pay? What are we allowing with this free speech to be used by these people?
That's the exact questions we should be asking about Democrat and leftist speech, globalism, mass immigration, demographic change etc. We're not allowed to question and debate that in the so-called land of the free?
 
Old 08-18-2017, 02:49 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,494 posts, read 3,503,969 times
Reputation: 4711
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuja1 View Post
I can't see any redeeming qualities in these groups, and if they support murdering other groups of people they dislike, it seems like a proper reason to ban their right to speak publicly about this. People do not have the right to incite violence and murder in this country, so it would seem that this would apply to the KKK and neo Nazis. Thoughts?
You want to give the government the right to decide what is acceptable speech? Think real hard about that. You're saying you want Donald Trump to decide what speech is acceptable and what speech is not? Maybe your right to criticize the Klan or Nazis would go away? Maybe your right to criticize the President or the GOP, or the NRA would all go bye-bye? This is what you're advocating, whether you realize it or not.
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