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Old 08-22-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
5,439 posts, read 8,106,600 times
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It absolutely blows my mind how people still don't see why "All Lives Matter" is problematic. BLM is NOT saying that only black lives matter and never was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
If you proclaimed that all lives matter and possess value, then you're probably not going to be marching with KKK and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville or wherever else - nor making excuses for them.

And if you're sufficiently unbiased from white supremacists, you will assign culpability of violence to both sides rather than making the implicit assumption that the white supremacists were all peaceful and only counter-protesters were violent meanies.
Right?
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Somerville, MA
7,918 posts, read 15,977,245 times
Reputation: 9282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
They're not rallying with Nazis. They're rallying on an issue.
In Charlottesville, they absolutely were. "Free Speech" was a clear cover for a lot of Neo Nazi and white supremacist rhetoric in Charlottesville. If you want people to understand your free speech message- don't lump it in with the rest of that crap because nobody will listen to the "free speech" elements when you have cowards in hoods praising Hitler and yelling "blood and soil!" Tends to shift the focus away from "free speech," no? You saw the result in Boston. The "free speech" folks weeded most of the neo nazis out of their lineup and ended up with 50 people talking about free speech but nobody heard them because 40,000 counter-protesters showed up because of the the neo-nazis and supremacists at the "free speech" rallies in Charlottesville. It was initially a lot of the same people involved, but the free speech folks smartened up and disassociated with them.

If you want one message to be heard (free speech) run as far away from combining it with other distracting messages (white supremacists) as you can.

Quote:
Since when do people say all lives matter and don't understand it means everyone? lol Try harder next time.
Because that's not what "all lives matter" was used for. It was a response designed to downplay what the BLM folks stand for. That is equal treatment by law enforcement. All Lives Matter is used specifically to minimize the BLM cause. Yes, all lives do matter. We all know that. It's like saying the sky is blue. But responding to BLMs grievances by saying "all lives matter" is like going to a Cancer fundraiser and saying "ALL DISEASES MATTER." Of course they do- but people are allowed to fight for a specific cause as well.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,609 posts, read 11,139,524 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Which is what the right practices? Last I checked it was a right-wing protester who mowed down counter-protesters and not the other way around. But as a rational thinking person, I can also agree that that one individual doesn't represent the entire right.
Show proof the right supports his actions and his group. You have a twisted mentality that when one supports free speech they support whomever is speaking. That's on you.
One always defends the rights of the individual. You either believe in it or you don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Furthermore, I don't agree with ANTIFA's methods. Nor do I agree with any one who has taken a positive or justifiable movement (like BLM) and used it to justify violence. Most on the left disagree with ANTIFA's methods at least. All on the left condemn the violence. What people DO disagree with many on the right about is that groups like ANTIFA and BLM are somehow equal to Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, etc. because individuals in each group have been violent during rallies and protests. They are NOT equal. The whole idea of "false equivalency" is designed precisely for this. While both sides have had individuals take their views to the extreme measure of violence, only one side is rallying and protesting for equality. The other side (the extreme right) represents something entirely different - the supremacy of the white race, the inferiority of other races, and overall intolerance. That's an extremely different purpose.
antifa and blm are not arguing for equality. What makes you think that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
You're wrong.
No I'm not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
It's exactly about that. The "all lives matter" moniker came about as a way to oppose Black Lives Matter. They are not equal viewpoints. One is fighting for equal treatment (Black Lives Matter), and "All Lives Matter" is an effort to minimize and downplay the other's efforts. One is an effort to oppress, the other is an effort to attain equality. It could not be more simple to understand.
The blm movement, especially the ones running it, is pure sleaze. They hijacked a good ideal. It's about police brutality. That's the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
The right is taking word play to the extreme..
No they're not, that's just your twisted agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Call a gathering of neo-nazis and supremacist a "free speech" rally, and anyone who opposes it must hate free speech.
That's your misguided perception . It's about rights. It is about speech. It's not about the content. How about you take the thought process to the next level, leave your twisted agenda behind and defend free speech no matter how much you hate the topic. Peacefully protest the topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Take issue with the "All Lives Matter" deflection, and you must not think all lives actually matter. It's laughably stupid,.
Thinking your post is on point is laughable. You don't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
but apparently people really believe that that must be the case. Free speech is great. All lives do matter. But free speech doesn't make white supremacy OK,
lol No one is saying that but you. More proof of your twisted agenda. Falsely testify in order to drive home a twisted agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
and the fact that all lives do matter certainly doesn't mean that Black Lives Matter is wrong. Stop with the ludicrous deflections.
No deflection on my part because I'm on point. The only thing ludicrous is thinking your post holds water.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,609 posts, read 11,139,524 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
In Charlottesville, they absolutely were.
You miss the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
"Free Speech" was a clear cover for a lot of Neo Nazi and white supremacist rhetoric in Charlottesville. If you want people to understand your free speech message- don't lump it in with the rest of that crap because nobody will listen to the "free speech" elements when you have cowards in hoods praising Hitler and yelling "blood and soil!" Tends to shift the focus away from "free speech," no? You saw the result in Boston. The "free speech" folks weeded most of the neo nazis out of their lineup and ended up with 50 people talking about free speech but nobody heard them because 40,000 counter-protesters showed up because of the the neo-nazis and supremacists at the "free speech" rallies in Charlottesville. It was initially a lot of the same people involved, but the free speech folks smartened up and disassociated with them.
It's only free speech when you agree with the topic, understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
If you want one message to be heard (free speech) run as far away from combining it with other distracting messages (white supremacists) as you can.
You don't get to decide that. If you want to run off and go to a safe place go ahead. Free speech is free speech period. It should always be protected. We fought a Revolutionary War over that

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Because that's not what "all lives matter" was used for. It was a response designed to downplay what the BLM folks stand for. That is equal treatment by law enforcement. All Lives Matter is used specifically to minimize the BLM cause. Yes, all lives do matter. We all know that. It's like saying the sky is blue. But responding to BLMs grievances by saying "all lives matter" is like going to a Cancer fundraiser and saying "ALL DISEASES MATTER." Of course they do- but people are allowed to fight for a specific cause as well.
The blm people in charge hijacked a movement. It's about police brutality. That's the problem. It's not about skin color. Do blacks get treated worse by police, I agree. Does anyone here think a movement about this issue would gather more support if it wasn't about race? I do, it would get a lot more steam and would make it easier to fight tyranny.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,609 posts, read 11,139,524 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter View Post
It absolutely blows my mind how people still don't see why "All Lives Matter" is problematic. BLM is NOT saying that only black lives matter and never was.



Right?
Just their slogan does. You don't see that? You don't see how that changes things?
My question/statement isn't about which side you agree with, or if it does or doesn't matter to you, it's about whether you can see.
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,717 posts, read 9,341,825 times
Reputation: 5228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter View Post
It absolutely blows my mind how people still don't see why "All Lives Matter" is problematic. BLM is NOT saying that only black lives matter and never was.



Right?
some people get real touchy when they hear the word Black and it isn't followed by crime or welfare
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:45 AM
 
Location: 130 Miles E of Sacramento
5,376 posts, read 3,266,016 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastion79 View Post
  • If you hold a rally in favor of free speech, we will violently oppose you.
Yet they claim Collin Kapernick kneeling down during the national anthem as free speech
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Old 08-22-2017, 10:58 AM
 
Location: USA
19,638 posts, read 14,606,950 times
Reputation: 12697
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastion79 View Post
What precisely is that message of peace love and tolerance?

  • If you hold a rally In favor of free speech, we wi'll violently oppose you.
  • If you proclaim that all lives matter and possess value, we will call you a racist and violently oppose you.

With such a rich message overflowing with the sweet milk of human kindness, understanding and compassion, who wouldn't want to embrace it?
The message of peace from a Nobel Peace prize winner would be "If we don't like your leader we will Invade your country and kill him, destabilize your country and create anarchy: Libya, Syria, Yemen: more than a half million dead and millions left homeless without a country. Thank god Trump wasnt president at that time or it would have been a disaster
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,554 posts, read 3,267,623 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastion79 View Post
What precisely is that message of peace, love and tolerance?

  • If you hold a rally in favor of free speech, we will violently oppose you.
  • If you proclaim that all lives matter and possess value, we will call you a racist and violently oppose you.

With such a rich message overflowing with the sweet milk of human kindness, understanding and compassion, who wouldn't want to embrace it?
Rarely do I see these "free speech" rallies being held purely for free speech.

I fully support free speech, but if I went to a free speech rally and saw a Swastika... it's not a free speech rally.
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,609 posts, read 11,139,524 times
Reputation: 6102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevdawgg View Post
Yet they claim Collin Kapernick kneeling down during the national anthem as free speech
Thank you for exposing hypocrisy on both sides. The NFL with all their "mensa" material is one of the sanest on this issue. How often did we hear coaches and players say they didn't agree with Kap but defended his right to do so.
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