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Old 08-21-2017, 07:45 PM
 
33,830 posts, read 16,846,399 times
Reputation: 17116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I was responding to this:



I eagerly await your apology and will accept it gladly, unless you have any other observations to make about my ability to think and express myself coherently.
I thought you were inferring Trump was racist. Sorry I erred on that, and glad you realize he isn't.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:49 PM
 
11,914 posts, read 6,502,859 times
Reputation: 13878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
. The "Core problem" is not just poor messaging and no plan ... It's the Demonization of US Citizens because they did not vote for Hillary Clinton.

This Demonization is getting set in concrete - and the backlash to it will also be set in concrete.
THIS ^^^
Most people already know what the dem policies are and what they will be in the future.
But their real problem is that they've demonized half the country as racists, islamophobes, whitesupremacists, anti immigrants, ignorant peasants, gun and church clingers, etc, etc, and even independents are publicly denouncing Dems for it. The Dems have a deranged-superiority complex that will only continue to harm them until they can find some humility and integrity.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Boston
19,959 posts, read 8,864,741 times
Reputation: 18526
Dem policies are single payer insurance, open borders and bathroom rules, it's no secret.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,906 posts, read 5,548,610 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I thought you were inferring Trump was racist. Sorry I erred on that, and glad you realize he isn't.
I wasn't inferring anything about Trump, and will withhold my opinion about him, as that is not the purpose of this thread. I was referring to one post, and one only.

I do thank you for your apology.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Boston
19,959 posts, read 8,864,741 times
Reputation: 18526
really sad to see the once proud Democrat Party to be in a terminal spin. Leaderless, lack of focus agenda. tsk tsk
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:03 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,930 posts, read 48,959,201 times
Reputation: 54922
After the last 10 years I'm not sure Dems can stop the name calling and ridicule. They are like a bunch of junkies that thrive on putting down anyone who does not believe like they do. They don't see the middle ground any longer.

Obama took them quite away to the left and that ship is hard to turn much like Obamacare.

Agreed that leadership (McConnell included) needs to go. Elizabeth Warren would be a disaster. She only relates to the hard core.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,715,592 times
Reputation: 4160
Democrats need to give up the identity politics. I'm probably one of the most avid anti-Trumpists on this board and even I think tearing down statues is nothing short of stupid and ignorant. I hate Nazis just like the next guy but all of this is just getting out of hand. It's tearing the nation apart. At this point, both sides ARE to blame. The right wing for being Nazis and the left wing for being race baiters.

I think if everybody would just calm the f*** down and have a dialogue, we'd find that a majority of people are against the true White Nationalist (Nazi) agenda. Those guys are truly scary and a threat to this nation. Responding with violence gives them exactly what they're looking for and what they want.

I think antifa started out with good intentions but they have devolved into something that is truly frightening and anti-American. The Nazis never had good intentions so you can't really make that claim for them.
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:16 PM
 
11,914 posts, read 6,502,859 times
Reputation: 13878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
Here is my voting record across my lifetime: Carter, Reagan, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton I, Clinton I, Bush II, Bush II, Obama, Romney, Trump. I am that great middle of the road mass that picks the winners. The zealots on either side can't win without the middle. Romney was the only one out of 11 elections that I got wrong, and to be honest it was a vote against Obama rather than for Romney. I wasn't excited about him because he didn't have a clue about average Americans. Obama on the other hand had taken identity politics too far for me to vote for him a second time.

Trump is a pompous a$$ who needs to put the phone down but he is right on some key policy issues such as dealing with illegal immigration and putting American interests ahead of that of other countries. Just as importantly, he shows respect for the military, the police, and most of all average Americans. We're not deplorable to him nor are we "clingers". He knows the vast majority of us are not racists or white supremacists, something the Dems don't seem to understand anymore.

The entire Democratic Party leadership continues to play the Obama era identity politics and in fact have amplified it. They refuse to call BLM out over calling for the killing of police or riots nor the violence coming from the Antifa crowd. They continue to embrace open borders and globalism no matter the cost to middle America. They refuse to utter the words Islamic terrorism.

Though I can go either way as demonstrated by my voting record, at this point I will likely vote Republican in 2018 & 2020 unless the Democratic Party disavows the extremists in their midst and puts forth some fresh faces that speak to the middle. I'm tired of hearing about bathrooms, Russia, and statues. It's political theater and the time has come for that show to end. I don't want to constantly hear that we're all racists and white supremacists if we disagree with anything those on the far left say. I've totally had it with identity politics; someone needs to tell the Democratic leadership that we're all Americans. I want to hear about border control and trade deals that are fair to the American worker. I'd like to hear some respect for the military and police. I'd like to hear some respect for middle of the road Americans who work for a living and play by the rules, and stop telling everyone who chooses not to that they're victims.

In a nutshell, during the Obama years the Democratic party abandoned the middle. If you want me back, talk to me about stuff that matters, and treat me with a little respect.
THIS ^^^
If you Dems are serious about reform -- take this post seriously!
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,715,592 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Dem policies are single payer insurance, open borders and bathroom rules, it's no secret.
A lot of people want single payer so for you to try and use that against the Dems will not give you the results you seek. You can partly thank your boy Trump for that. He promised a single payer healthcare system and hasn't delivered. That's a big part of why he was elected. Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something that will cover everyone, be cheap, and be paid for by the government. Remember that?
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Old 08-21-2017, 08:19 PM
Status: "81 Years, NOT 91 Felonies" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,787 posts, read 3,574,684 times
Reputation: 5687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
One of the reasons Trump won the election is because he was able to so completely dominate the national conversation. I wonder sometimes if we (myself included) are letting the same thing happen again.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized. He deserves it, richly. But we have to have something more to offer than simply being anti-Trump. If we don't start talking more about the things we want to accomplish, like better health care and decent wages, we are going to be just as screwed in 2020 as we were in 2016.

I am interested in hearing people's ideas about how to address this, and particularly interested in hearing from Democrats who jumped ship to support Trump, and what prompted that decision. I don't mean "Reagan Democrats" who have been voting Republican for decades, I mean the recently departed.

I honestly believe that we have a better agenda, or I wouldn't be a Dem. How can we get our message out there more effectively?
Yes, we have to be more than anti-Trump. I was practically a Reagan-worshipper until the mid-90s, then drifted increasingly leftward (especially on social and cultural issues) until I because an actual liberal in 2001 or 02. On top of this I was born and raised in the rural Deep South, and made that changeover without ever living only in Southern or Arguably Southern states.

We need to concentrate on economic issues, slashing money (esp corporate and billionaire) money out of politics (Citizens United decision, anyone?), affordable education, job training, and health care, and (increasingly in metro areas) housing. Upgrade our transportation and communication infrastructure. Start concentrating on non-carbon energy sources. Shift the tax burden away from the poor and the lower middle class and further up to the richest, or even the "merely" rich.

That's the bread-and-butter issues. As said, we need to attack Trump's character when he is clearly and deliberating hurting, harming, or demeaning the dignity of others. We also have to tackle the cultural issues - especially regarding (a) our culture's definitions of "leadership" and (b) "respectworthy" and "disrespectworthy" person. Everybody knows about the character part, so I won't pile on further here. The other two are, IMO, the basis for many people's selection of Trump in the first place.

Huge topic here, catgirl, but a very important one. Kudos (to be 00s about it)!
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