Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Obama sold out when he took One-payer off of the table. You're right--he had a majority..and, IMO, should have shoved one-payer right down the Right's throat..no compromise, no effort at bi-partisanship...should have treated the Republicans exactly as they treat the Dems today. Instead he adapted the ACA..based on a Republican plan..and saddled us with it. It's still better than anything the Republicans can come up with..mostly because the Republicans really don't want a healthcare plan at all.
Obama was weak though..and wanted to govern with the Repubs consent...thus making him a fool who frittered away his power.
Is Trump making the same mistake?
I wouldn't call him a fool. In hindsight, I would call him very idealistic and naive. The man tried to play nicely and got kicked in the face. No wonder he lost his taste for compromise.
You are so right here. A large portion of the GOP is now bought and owned by uber wealthy who are interested only in increasing their profits. spending a few million to buy a few votes is well worth it for them.
They are interested in shifting our laws further and further away from the center so that they can profit from the declining employee protections, decreased regulation and oversight, defanged federal bureaus.
for the average American things are a lot worse not a lot better. jobs are much less secure because terms of employment are now all in favor of the employer.
Freedom caucus is just wholly owned subsidiary of Koch industries. it is their "government" branch. they literally blocked a deal on health care. and Trump lacked the nads to bring them to heel. Trump has no power base within the party, no cadre of loyal people to force others into line. meanwhile KOCH and Mercer control a whole bunch of votes and answer to nobody.
citizen united has been a disaster for the american people and a huge win for the politicized 1%.
A large portion of BOTH PARTIES is bought and owned by the uber wealthy. Surely you realize that.
That's what so many Americans know and are disgusted with and why so many Americans want to kick career politicians to the curb.
I'm reserving judgment on this deal. As for Trump's "true" political affiliation, I don't consider him either a Republican or a Democrat. I consider him an opportunist. I'm aware that all politicians flip-flop sometimes, but he seems to change position by the hour. I've watched lots of his interviews over the years, and he changes his mind, then changes it back again, with a frequency and speed that make my head spin.
Differences in policy would cause me to disagree with him - it's his complete lack of consistency that causes me to distrust him. I'm just not ready to trust him yet. I don't have much sympathy for Republicans who feel betrayed. Evidence of his inconsistency has been out there right along, for anyone who cared to notice.
I agree totally with this statement, and the bolded parts really jumped out at me.
I have been amazed at how quickly and thoroughly very conservative Republicans have embraced Trump and his wife. My gosh, all the inconsistencies and oddities have been front and center all along.
My husband and I got in a pretty big discussion about whether or not to vote for Trump in the general election (neither of us voted for him in the primaries). I mean, the choices were just so incredibly bad, and the media was telling us that Clinton was certainly going to win, and neither of us wanted to "throw away our vote" but oh my gosh, as a woman, Trump just makes my skin crawl. And I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.
But as a woman, I can say exactly the same thing about Hillary Clinton, and the idea of her and Wild Bill being BACK in the White House not only makes my skin crawl, it makes me want to barf.
WORST. PRESIDENTIAL. CHOICES. EVAH.
Anyway, the only draw I think Trump has is that he's NOT a politician and he does know how to wheel and deal - as this deal seems to be evidence of. He's concerned about results - not how he gets there. OK - and this also means that he is a wild card and that he does not seem to have any particularly strong ideology - and he CERTAINLY doesn't seem to have or embrace conservative values. So it always amazes me when conservatives heap praise on him. I'm like "Whaaaaa...?" "You surely don't actually believe he's a conservative, do you? Baby, he will throw you under the bus in a New York second if he thinks it will be expedient."
Many snowflakes are melting in "con land". But since they refuse to ever stand up for anything (except that which Trump does is automatically GRREEEAAAT), they will go along with him, even when he makes ObamaCare greater.
So, please explain exactly why THIS deal is bad or wrong. I'd really like to know exactly how this deal doesn't serve the nation for the next 3 months...
So, please explain exactly why THIS deal is bad or wrong. I'd really like to know exactly how this deal doesn't serve the nation for the next 3 months...
It doesn't screw the nation at all short term IMO. What it did was screw the republican party leadership, who were trying to force the Democrats into doing something unpopular AND he gave the Democrats back some leverage they can use in a few months. He actually saved the Democrats from being marginalized, so I'm not mad at it.
Where it might come back to bite everyone in the ass is down the road when it's time to pass some real legislation, it might be an every man for himself situation with Republicans. But I'm not for most of their agenda so I'm good with that too actually. It will be a nasty spectacle though.
This is so true, and what I've been trying to tell people on here. Obama and Hillary were centrist candidates, but the Republicans have been pulled so far to the right that the center has moved. The Tea Party was a far right movement but became a powerful minority and moved the party further right. Moderate Republicans feared being "primaried" and capitulated to the more extreme factions of the party. Now we're starting to see something similar with the alt right, which is becoming more mainstream.
In my opinion, one of the reasons that we are seeing the more left-wing progressive movement now in the liberal base is a reaction to this. Because the fact is, Democrats never get credit for attempting to compromise with Republicans. They're always portrayed as "socialist" or "liberal loons" regardless of what they do. So, I think you're seeing a lot of people rise up now, saying no we're fed up with trying to compromise and appease the far right. The thinking is this - If they're not going to compromise with us and give credit where it's due then screw it, let's take the same tack. We may as well go all out in fighting for our beliefs since compromise gets us nowhere anyway.
That's my take anyway.
The tea party was a reaction to Obama's and the DNC overreach.
I can't believe the nonsense above. If anything, the DNC is the one that is moving hard-left. There are some conservative parties in Congress, but in general candidates are moderates. Look to the GOP primary, where pretty much all candidates were moderates. Trump is not even a conservative. The DNC probably would have nominated a socialist (Sanders) if Hillary and the DNC didn't cheat.
And Obama a moderate? Give me a break. If you look at the damage he's done over the past 8 years you can see his true colors: red.
Sweden and Norway used to elect dogs as kings. Just because it was a cute and hilarious idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
When did we do that?
At various times from the 6th-10th centuries.
The Dog king is a Scandinavian tradition which appears in several Scandinavian sources: Chronicon Lethrense, Annals of Lund, Gesta Danorum (book 7), Heimskringla (Hákonar saga góða), Hversu Noregr byggðist and probably also in Skáldatal.
It doesn't screw the nation at all short term IMO. What it did was screw the republican party leadership, who were trying to force the Democrats into doing something unpopular AND he gave the Democrats back some leverage they can use in a few months. He actually saved the Democrats from being marginalized, so I'm not mad at it.
Where it might come back to bite everyone in the ass is down the road when it's time to pass some real legislation, it might be an every man for himself situation with Republicans. But I'm not for most of their agenda so I'm good with that too actually. It will be a nasty spectacle though.
It's already "every man for himself" in the GOP, they stick together about as well as a heard of cats. If Trump can get deals that are good for the people then I don't really care if he deals with Dems,Reps or Martians. Just no deals with those damn people from Uranus!
It's already "every man for himself" in the GOP, they stick together about as well as a heard of cats. If Trump can get deals that are good for the people then I don't really care if he deals with Dems,Reps or Martians. Just no deals with those damn people from Uranus!
LOL! True.
The irony is that Republicans will only unite on large legislation if a strong leader emerges who tells them what he will and will not sign into policy OR ELSE. Without that, everyone will go hardline according to their own ideological beliefs. That leader should have been Trump but he gave them zero help in crafting actual policy... all he did was demand something be done in an unrealistic timeframe and then contradict himself when it came to selling it to the public... and followed that up by throwing them under the bus when it was all over, even the ones who tried to do what he wanted.
I don't feel sorry for any of them because they've all been acting like arseholes for years now.
BUT if the end result is that we get some good bipartisan legislation out of this mess I'm all for it!
What this is saying is this... scumbags like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are superior to worthless Rinos like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell... John McCain, etc.
Oh, and that ain't saying much.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
"You surely don't actually believe he's a conservative, do you? Baby, he will throw you under the bus in a New York second if he thinks it will be expedient."
