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Old 09-12-2017, 09:43 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
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Note - I have a house in Florida as well as many relatives including some in construction.

I have personal experience with this.

Much of the pain and suffering and loss of money from this storm will be caused by electric outages. For example, even now less than 10% of gas stations are open. This is not because of gas shortages - but no electric to pump! The same infrastructure often carry telecommunication lines - so no power, no credit card approvals either (so a backup generation would not help).

Florida, being a long-term "corporate owned" state has a ridiculously fragile electric grid. In many areas, old poles service 100's of thousands of properties - and these poles and lines are running through masses of tall oak and other trees. One branch falling will knock out a neighborhood.

My MIL was in Delray Beach for Wilma - 20 days with no power at all at a hot time of year. Even Traffic lights didn't work! Imagine any other large city (millions!) with a blackout weeks long. It doesn't happen.

Bottom line - it is well known that the electric will go out often and for long periods of time. The grid has not been upgraded for these reasons:

1. Why should they? Low costs are the ideal.
2. The State, always being GOP controlled, doesn't like regulation and investment.

In many ways Florida is a microcosm of the USA today - people wanting all the benefits of modern life but without paying for it. Electric is very cheap - almost no solar (should be!) and no impetus to put utilities underground or harden the system.

An increase in electric prices of 10% would probably cover all of the improvements needed. But unless the State (Utility Boards, codes and more) insist upon it, it is not going to happen at the rate it needs to.

And so, people will suffer in shelters, stuck in their houses and apartments where the temps rise to 95+ and 95% humidity, throwing away food.....and all the other problems associated with long term electric outages.

The "political" aspect here involves the old story...why pay for something when you can offload the cost to someone else? This is the case even though the cost of proper infrastructure is about 25% of the cost of keeping it poor and fixing it during every storm. Personally I'd rather pay another penny for each KWH and have a decent grid.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:47 AM
 
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Part of the reason this is not addressed is because of the very thing you tried to do. Make it political. This would define all, states. States ran by the (D)'s or (R)'s.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:49 AM
 
2,212 posts, read 1,073,295 times
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$5 trillion is what it would cost. And you can exclude Texas which has their own grid.

The outdated US electric grid is going to cost $5 trillion to replace - Business Insider
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:51 AM
 
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There is no such thing as a libertarian electrical grid.however It does sound like there is a crony capitalist system in place
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Part of the reason this is not addressed is because of the very thing you tried to do. Make it political. This would define all, states. States ran by the (D)'s or (R)'s.
We can't pretend that State Utility Boards are not political. When I was in NJ, the gave 9 BILLION dollars to the utility company....of taxpayer and ratepayer money. This was just one single vote and basically paid all the utility companies for any losses they were going to incur in the future for plants they built (and maybe should not have)....

It is totally a political issue - just like on my Condo Board it is political whether we decide to spend money in advance...or whether we wait until a problem happens.

Political is not a dirty word. If this is not political, what is it? "The People" and their representatives are not doing their job. This is much easier in Florida due to the transient and aged population - so, in a sense, the government does exactly what they want. Your 90 yo MIL is unlikely to go to the capital and protest.

So there is an implied trust - that "The People" have in "The Government" there - moreso than where younger and longer-lasting populations are.

It's all political. Trump just did away with the order that said when FEMA and HUD money is spent to rebuild...that the money should go toward a higher grade of construction and mitigation. In other words, taxpayers are expected to fork out to build stuff we are going to have to replace again
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:56 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
There is no such thing as a libertarian electrical grid.however It does sound like there is a crony capitalist system in place
Use "lightly regulated" if you like.
Or "poorly engineered due to lack of government oversight".

Whatever works for you - the case is still the same.

How about suggesting a solution? I did. Or do you think the current system works?
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:00 AM
 
13,684 posts, read 9,003,085 times
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It is certainly food for thought, OP.


As for costs, I imagine (but do not know, of course) that many in Florida have reasoned that the average hurricane blasts through the state from west to east, or vise versa, leaving a rather narrow trail of destruction and electrical outage, which can be addressed by sending the state's complement of electricians out to fix.


Irma, of course, was quite different, running south to north, and causing outages over a huge area.


In hindsight, one would wish that Florida had opted for underground electrical grid way back when. But, they didn't. Developers certainly did not wish to spend the money (recall that for many years, especially prior to Disney World's development, Florida was rather a joke concerning its cheap land and numerous real estate scams), and I doubt taxpayers (including the retired people) wish to contribute today to such costs. Yes, they would like the benefits of underground grid, but would not desire to pay for it.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:29 AM
 
108 posts, read 53,754 times
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6.5 million people without power and high 80s and low 90 degree temperatures , it could be weeks to get power back on for some people.

Its crazy that places like florida and houston just grow and grow and grow, in florida alot of the growth right on the ocean and in houston its some development is in flood plains. Both places that are just prone to hurricanes and flooding. Florida actually dodged a bullet, next time it may not be so lucky, something like an andrew taking a direct hit on miami would be astronomical in terms of damage.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:33 AM
 
45,201 posts, read 26,417,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Use "lightly regulated" if you like.
Or "poorly engineered due to lack of government oversight".

Whatever works for you - the case is still the same.

How about suggesting a solution? I did. Or do you think the current system works?
open it up, get the guv out.
Why is an electric grid any different than tv's, computers, fast food burgers etc.? Competition brings prices down and advancements.
Whats in place now is a sole electricity provider with a gov enforced monopoly on service.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:41 AM
 
7,447 posts, read 2,830,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skycaller23 View Post
$5 trillion is what it would cost. And you can exclude Texas which has their own grid.

The outdated US electric grid is going to cost $5 trillion to replace - Business Insider
For something like electrical infrastructure... it does not really matter what it would cost, it needs to be done. Not only is it a danger for natural disaster type situations, it is also a major defense weakness.

Electric,
Communications,
Highway and transit,
Air travel,
Law enforcement & emergency services,
Defense

All vital infrastructure NEEDS for a first world country. If we can't afford to keep these systems hardened and up to date we are rapidly on our way to 2nd/3rd world status.
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